Ok, changes i would make to those charms (assuming they are a going live)

First of all, these post assume they are going live, so at least we can make them more balanced in some way.

Fire, Cold, Lightning and Poison Charms

Conviction and Lower resists working 100% is to much so:

Make any Res down 1/5 of its power, recognizing the immunes as such for those content.

You could also make it that absolutely any res down will always be 1/5 even on non immunes and take away the -75% x res as a the downside.

The change would probably make cold mastery balanced already, but it could change to the same as fire mastery.

Phys Charm

Well, there is 0 why to use this to be fair, so at least make -50% defense of monsters part of it, wich would in fact help with a much worse part of these kind of builds, wich is ridiculous numbers to hit enemies.

Also keep the decripify/amp damage full here, as phys already has no other means of doing more phys dmg.

Magic Charm

To be fair, this charm is pure Trash, there is 1 use for it that is to take it away from your cube on wave 2 baal and put it back after it.

There is 0% chance of using it with -50% magic res, almost 0 immunes in the game, and no other way of making it going from 95% to anything else, so its basically bad. I would just get rid of it because any bufs here would make hammers stronger and thats not even a good idea.

All of them need to work with pets, hydras, traps, otherwise you kill the builds.

This is a balance topic, not a “we dont want it”, because this assumes we lost the cause, so plz, help balancing it.

Make it at least Ohm rarity


sry i dont get it
you wanna 20% instead of 95%?

monster block is still here
hell high phys res is still here
grief still has ITD which doesnt work only for act bosses
grief still has -20% def which work for act bosses
not big of a change
Obs: sry i only play barb for phys, i have no clue about amazon or zealot

all of them work with pets/hirelings as they change the monsters near you

if the new charms are rare as a gheeds, they are about 2 times less rarer than an ohm (300mf)
obs: if they will be part of the same unique charm pool that gheed is part, they will be rare as an ohm
obs²: if every sundered charm is in the pool, an specific sundered charm is way rarer than an ohm

Not entirely sure what you mean here. But my change would be that instead of setting Immune monsters’ resistance to 95%, it just allows any minus Resistances you have on your character to take effect (without the 1/5 debuff).


So basically, if you have a Cold Sunder charm and Cold Mastery at level 20 you get -115% Cold Resistance on all Monsters including Immune ones (which is enough to break any Cold Immunity in the game) but can still leave you with a Snow Drifter with 35% Cold Resistance, and a Frozen Abyss with 95% Cold Resistance.

Hence still reason to try and get your Cold Mastery even higher, but it gives diminishing returns.

Similarly, if you have a Fire Sunder charm and are using say a Phoenix Shield, Flickering Flame, and 3 piece Tal Rasha’s set you’d have a max of -58% Fire Resistance, that gets applied to Fire Immune Monsters as well (without the 1/5 debuff) giving you the ability to break every Fire Immune in the game, but still leaving them with Fire Resistance. For example the Pit Lords in Hell level Abbadon usually have 145 Fire Resistance. With Sunder and your -58% Fire Resistance, that would become 87% Fire Resistance. However, most Fire Immune Monsters will be around 42% to 57% Fire Resistance.

This also benefits Paladin’s with Conviction and Necromancers with Lower Resist. Instead of breaking Immunities at the 1/5 effectiveness, with a Sunder charm of the right element you break Immunities with full effect. So a Paladin with a Lightning Sunder charm and max Conviction active applies -150% to Lightning Immune monsters. So that Pit Lord in Chaos Tristam which usually has 145 Lightning Resistance (and can’t be broken by Conviction) when facing off against a Conviction Paladin with a Lightning Sunder charm gets -5% Lightning Resistance.

Same thing for a Necromancer with max Lower Resist (-70%) and a Poison Sunder Charm. This means you can not for example, break the Immunities of things like Catapults, Fire Towers, and other things that you really should not be able to poison. But you will be able to break the Poison Immunity of things like the Sand Maggot Queen (which currently without Sunder you cannot).

Yeah, the Physical Sunder charm is really ineffective at helping players. I suppose you can apply the same effect above (applies Physical Damage Resistance reduction at full effectiveness instead of 1/5th), but also you need to have it give -50% enemy Defense, and +500 Attack Rating. Furthermore, instead of “Physical Damage Received Increased by 25%” it should be “Damage Reduced by -25%” basically exactly the same stat as Damage Reduction so it can be mitigated by wearing Damage Reduction equipment, and gives a reason to stack Damage reduction above 50%. Maybe that’s already how it works (haven’t found a way to test it without an Assassin to use Fade) but if that is how it works the description should make it clear.

Yeah, I basically don’t care about this charm as it’s pointless.

Well, yes, although you could let traps work the way they currently do, and just have it impact Conviction on your Merc too.


As it is right now, infinity works 1/5 of its power on immunes for example.

The changes to defense are for all not only on grief barbs. Block should be unaltered.

Tested with monster on screen and they were still immune to that specific element with mage skeleton, for example.

Rare as Ohm as tyrael is 1/9 chance on a unique with templar might.

Totally agree!!!

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This new feature unbalanced the game, I agree with Cramus’ suggestions


in addition to everything cramus said to increase the skin mode in the game of weapons, armor and colors. mainly from Unique items being able to change the color of their legend on the ground… also viable XP charms that can only be used at lvl 90+

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Another idea would be to make the phys charm disconsider lvl from Hit Chance.

-95% set to 110% or 115% for cold\fire\lighting\poison
-95% set to 75% or 50% for physical\magic
25% more damage taken to -300ar or- 500 defense

i kinda disagree, i think 100% would already be perfect as it will apply the 1/5, but for magic 75% is a must, coz 95% and nothing, its the same. But 50% lower magic res is a nono, i still think magic doesnt need a charm.

Phys id say 5 to 10% lower res would be enough too, for the purpose, and 75% set.

We do need more Chance to hit and AoE damage with physical melee though. Not Immunity bypass (Berserk, Vengeance, Magic arrow…)

I’d totally scrap the current Bone Break and add a Physical damage Chain Lightning attack proc to it (easier to code than Cleave or splash) at the cost of -5% Damage Reduction. That may make it somewhat worth obtaining.

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I agree. The idea is good, it only needs some balance.
And also no idea why I would use the Phys or Magic one in its current state.

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