I mean, I never made that argument about ploot, so not really relevant here. And that aside, wanting a “participation trophy” wasn’t even my only argument here. If anything, as a mostly non-ladder player, I’m arguing against something that will make the game EASIER for me. Because I don’t want everything handed to me, I want valuable things to work towards. I want to have to farm to trade to get prestigious gear that is meaningful. And I want the ability to make a decision between which format I play on, and have different reasons for doing so. More efficient mf’ing: Non-ladder. Access to exclusive items: Ladder
Regardless though, yes, part of the argument does boil down to the fact that I think playing the game should always feel rewarding. I don’t think that applies to ploot (for me anyway) because your reward was always the experience you gained in runs and the rushes available and so on. But when it comes to playing ladder, I don’t think it will feel rewarding anymore if you don’t care about the race to 99. Because I DON’T have the time to be competitive in that regard, it doesn’t appeal to me, but ladder was still occasionally exciting to play before, even casually.
They have not made their full announcement yet. With ungating the content, ladder releasing “soon” after launch (I don’t think this will be Blizzard soon, but probably within a month), but I highly suspect a more modern season approach with themes. Something probably to do with true ladder only experiences that don’t trickle down into non ladder.
Yup, same here. If they have some decent themes, I’ll probably try a season or two, though will probably wait until next year when my gaming calendar is more empty.
I would agree if I thought that were true, but I fully believe you can upgrade those characters just by playing them for quite a long time into the game. If you were playing self-found, there are plenty of viable alternatives to the ladder runewords that could carry you to beating the game. Most of them, with a few exceptions, weren’t even hands down the best in slot choice. Now, if you wanted to be competitive in pvp, then yeah, eventually you would have to trade. But all of your farming with said characters gives you the capital to do so.
So the only valid argument I can see here is if somebody thinks they should never have to interact with another player, i.e. trade, in order to have best in slot items. I disagree with that argument though because I think driving community interaction is good. In the same way that I think having something that encourages you to keep farming for is important. Making these items less valuable removes that, especially when you’re not adding something else of higher value to take their place. And that aside, again, that’s why I’m in favor of unlocking everything for offline, single-player use as well.
looks at time played of the two games
Do you really want to go there with the “who is the most Diablo?”
Ohh no you can play non-ladder and feel like it is a waste of time because it is “not optimal” whatever will people do… ohh… wait… play a great game on the time schedule that is best for them… the horror of it all
As others have said… didn’t you already ask for a refund?
Note: I would like to see the ladder monster tweaks/changes moved over to non ladder as I feel like the game is fine with those differences
This is probably the best argument for why to keep the, I guess now, older system in place as it would force some trading to occur.
I personally like having non-ladder playing not feel so suboptimal now but I do think the above point is valid - especially down the road in like a year time or so.
I really love the change. I would have forced myself to play one ladder,
just for 3-4 Inights and Spirits, for my chars in non-ladder. I hate this
stressful play…
Im so happy that they just enable everything in all modes, i cant desribe.
Everyone who wants the competition and fresh start can do it, who doesnt isnt
locked out of content. What could be better, than giving everyone the possibility
for his own playstyle?
I respect and appreciate that, but unfortunately, the reality is that if you’re a relatively casual player, this change really doesn’t affect you at all with a few exceptions. Most of the low-level, ladder-only rune words or easily farmable ones are not spectacular with a few notable exceptions. Most people simply are not going to be finding high runes aplenty. I played religiously for years on end and I can count the number of zods I found personally on one hand.
So the reality is, if you’re not a botter, you’re still not going to be accomplishing a godly best-in-slot character without trading to some degree. The only people this really affects are those that are devoted to the game for the long term, and it removes a layer of value for them to strive towards and farm for the trading capital for by ensuring the marketplace will become saturated with those items much more quickly.
Absolutely agree. As a fellow nomad that would stroll between ladder and non at my leisure, this change almost ensures I’ll never play on ladder again.
To put it simply the good from the change outweighs the bad by far. It was a good decision, and the majority of the player base will be happy. I dont think the change actually is that big of a deal for normal ladder actually. Non-ladder stuff was never a huge deal anyway.
What are the goods then? Because I disagree. I’ve not seen a compelling argument in favor of the decision other than, essentially, “Because I want it” I think that’s shortsighted immediate gratification though, and catering to that instinct can quickly degrade the quality of a game. Meanwhile, I’ve highlighted how the change negatively affects the longevity of the game, the value of items, the economy, the incentive to play ladder, and fundamentally alters the experience, which is the antithesis of what this remaster is supposed to accomplish.
When it comes to a runeword like last wish, Jah Mal Jah Sur Jah Ber, I understand not having that gated behind ladder. With the current drop rates, that is an absurd achievement even for people who urinate in a bottle to avoid leaving their computer screen.
Yeah, I feel that, and that’s why I absolutely think that ladder seasons need to be six months still too. Even so, that never prevented me from having multiple Last Wishes on non.
The thing is though, as I said above, the reality is that that’s still the case whether those rune words are ladder exclusive or not. Most people will not have them. Most people will not find a single zod no matter how much they play. That’s fine though, good even. That’s not gatekeeping, that’s making sure that there’s always something more to farm and strive for. Would you rather have the immediate gratification of having the best in slot item and then feeling like you’ve conquered the game, or have the item actually be valuable and meaningful when you do obtain it, whether you choose to use or trade it? Maybe knowing you earned something that others haven’t? So, with a few exceptions of relatively powerful low rarity rune words, this change only really effects the most dedicated of players. And it does so by removing some of the longevity of the game with a tier of valuable items to strive for by ensuring the market will become saturated that much sooner.
The other thing is, D2 online isn’t a single-player game. You’re not even necessarily meant to make those items on your own. They’re so rare that it was meant to effectively be a community effort to create the most powerful rune words, or to fully gear a character with a specific build, which drives community engagement via trading and the like. And if you do want it to be a purely single-player experience, then having all of that content available on offline single-player is a great thing.
This makes no sense… Participation trophy is the whole ploot thing going around. Ladder exclusive items were not automatically given… They had to be earned by grinding D2… How is that a participation trophy?
