Goodbye to the D2 Amazon community

Amazon
82
  1. You need Ethereal Upgraded Titans to obtain your standard DPS for single target vs. boss.
  2. Do not max Jab. There is really no reason to do this in either PvM or PvP.
  3. Maxed out GA is definitely a lot more DPS vs. single target than a base 1 Magic Arrow. Go in game and check the numbers on that again. The GA also doesn’t miss, and I don’t mean just in the way of numerical defense total either. I’m talking about targets like Diablo who start running around that make landing straight line projectiles difficult at times. GA will follow targets like this and every arrow will land if you have him name-locked. This is another reason why GA ensures a good consistent DPS mechanically even, not just character screen damage wise.
  4. None of the elemental arrows are currently good for boss killing. The only reason you’d want to max Magic Arrow would be for the magic damage conversion rate to deal with physical immunes, which isn’t even that high in the end. You have Lightning Bolt already to convert your physical damage for vs. physical immunes. base 1 Magic Arrow is just a fallback source of damage if something happens to be both physical and lightning immune, which strangely enough doesn’t seem to happen very often in D2. You want to leave Magic Arrow base 1, and leave Jab base 1.

The build template I’ve presented in this guide is pretty much streamline optimized Bowazon. If you want to experiment with different builds based around Magic Arrow or Elemental Arrows, go for it. Just know that the results may not be what you are expecting.

1 Like
83

For sure.
Let’s see what this new patch does to Zon first.
I’ll need a phase to build around that once it drops.

84

Hey @TSBoyer,

  • What do you think of 60/40 dex/vita stats distribution?
  • What should I socket Swordback with?
    Thanks mate!
    PVP wise
85

Here is an alternative build: Max Immo Arrow and it’s synergies (60 points). 3 points in Multi Arrow (15 arrows circa), max Guided Arrows. The 1 point wonders in Passive. Distribute the remaining points in Pierce and Critical as you like. My build has 75% Pierce, 61% Crit.

You basically have the same DPS with the multi, as the multi build, only the strict diminishing returns from critical are missing, 9% crit for me.

With Immo on right mouse button, Multi on left, you can weave in Immo between your multi shots, on targets like ghosts, or into the fray. Against bosses keep Immo burning shooting guided arrows in between. It’s pretty effective.

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For PvM you just want base 100 vita no more, rest into DEX.
For PvP you need to dump as much into VITA as you can. The reason why this is important on Amazon is because of dodge/avoid/evade/75% block.

Explanation:

  • Say you are a full DEX zon trying to pvp and you’ve managed to have 1000 health value in pvp. A single Blessed Hammer strike would kill you if it hits. However, you have a high Avoid/Evade chance. So about 6 out of 10 hammers will miss you until a strike lands and then you’ll die. Sometimes you may get unlucky and the first hammer strike hits and kills you before Avoid/Evade gets to do its work.
  • If you pump VITA, you can end up with nearly 4000 health using battle orders, almost quadruple the health value for only losing maybe a fourth of your damage output from a DEX dump. Then because of high Dodge/Avoid/Evade/75% Block, Amazon really puts that health total to use, as well as running around and benefitting life rep. The health you have to stall death, the more Doges/Avoids/Evades/Blocks that get to be used. 4000 health on a Bowazon is like another character with no block no dodges that somehow had 25,000 health.
  • In Diablo 2, VITA is the most important stat in pvp by far, especially on an Amazon. Due to Battle Orders and how it amplifies life totals, it’s just a far greater benefit than dumping a damage stat. By turning from DEX into VITA, you trade 1/4th of your damage for quadruple the health total, which ends up being like 8x the sustain due to blocks/dodges. You’ve got to understand that a DEX zon may have 400+ DEX, but a VITA zon will still have 225+ DEX from gear anyway, to have max block. You’re looking at your 400 DEX mod 400%ed dropping to around 225%ed, but you’re already benefitting lv15 fanat 288%ed, 120%ed from your diadem, 300%ed from fort = about 930%ed as a VITA on. A DEX PvM zon is only going above that to about 1130%ed. Truthfully, most of your enhanced damage is coming from the gear and that 225 DEX that you’ll have anyway, and after that, the quadruple VITA stat is worth faaaaaaar more than adding another 200 DEX, which isn’t adding a whole lot of damage. The only reason PvM Bowa adds DEX is because you just don’t need 4000 health against PvM monsters. But you do need 4000 health in pvp against actual players.

As far as Swordback is concerned, I double upgraded my Swordbacks so they have the highest block potential, and then I usually put a Shael into them to enhance the block speed.

Please do not make suggestions like this.
This guide is to help people, not to confuse them.
Much appreciated.

87

I’m actually going to throw an important link in here:

Faith Merc sucks on Physical Bowazon :scream: - Amazon - Diablo 2 Resurrected Forums (blizzard.com)

^ This conversation is kind of important for this guide. Lots of discussion here about the realities of why that old Faith Rogue & WF Zon is an obsolete method as well as how & why GMB Faith/Pride out-DPSes WF/Pride. This way I don’t need to recreate these Q&As in this thread.

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Thanks man I really appreciate your insights.

I respecced and now have about 3k health with bo.
The bo buff part is a pain pre duel but well worth it.
I guess Ill need to get rid of some 3frw/3max scs to boost that up.

4 questions total.

3x questions related to the inventory.

  1. Are 5fhr/3max/20ar charms worth it (4) to achieve FHR similar to dodge evasion (8) ?
  2. What’s the optimal FRW?
  3. Are a couple of 3frw 5@ viable for ZvA (2x to be at 75 light res with SS on)?

I watched the dev talk on changes on dodge/evasion etc in 2.4… can’t wait to see what happens. Removing the animation would be such a huge buff to zons!

Thanks once again your expert opinion is greatly appreciated.
I’m new to the PVP scene in D2 and I really love learning from someone with more experience. PVP in D2 is very very different than WoW’s (2.3k arena xp)!

On a last note, what do you think of the new quick cast option? Worth mastering it?

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  1. Peak FRW was always 150% in old D2, and that’s having 150% without titans. It’s a standard of mobility to be able to keep pace with moving away from telestomps without being caught by them. Very important.
  2. 5allres/3frw SCs are most certainly viable for ZvA. You’ll want as many of them as you need to get about 30% past max res, even on general outfit.
  3. FHR is wasted on a zon because FHR doesn’t come on a Bowa’s general gear and it has to achieve all its FHR via charms, which is bad, because then you’re missing out on FRW and +VITA. Two things here about FHR: 1) FHR only effects standard damage frame locks. It does not effect animation locks from things like Barb Leap, Shockwave, or Mind Blast. So in this regard, FHR is a wasted affix. 2) Also, standard damage frame locks only occur when an attack deals damage to you that breaches a certain % of your total health. So the larger the health pool you have, the less chance you have of being FHR locked to begin with. FHR is only really nice to have on characters who are able to conveniently wear gear on their setup that grants a lot of FHR as a bonus to the primary affixes that they want. A good example would be Crown Of Ages.
  4. Are they seriously talking about removing the animation frames from Zon dodge/avoid/evade? That will be a nice buff and most certainly needed. But it will not however, mend the current problem Zon has vs. Smiter which now ignores not only block but now also dodge/evade/claw block in D2r. They really need to fix that.
  5. Quick cast options are terrible in pvp. You can’t maintain name locks with them, which is a bad deal in D2 pvp. If they wanted quick cast to be a real thing that everyone used, a truly upgraded approach to the game, they MUST give us a method to maintain name locks while swapping skills with quick cast. Otherwise it ruins many techniques that make D2 pvp fun to begin with. As of now there is no reason to worry about using quick cast for pvp, to answer your question directly.
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90

Thanks for the quick answer mate.

Wow 30 res over max, looks like i need to wear 10-15x then.
Yes the devs did mention tweaking the way dodge evade evasion works. We’ll see!!!

Any tips on strats vs wwBarbs and Tele Smiters?

91

Axe/Axe Barb is easy as Bowa once you have that 150% frw and understand how to toggle between run and walk on your javside while throwing Fury. Remember that you get full 75% block while walking but only 1/3rd of max block when you are running. Shieldless Barbs also get torn up on their approach from bowside.

Shield Barb is more difficult kill. It won’t be able to land damage on you as easily because its attacks are slower, but he takes a lot longer to kill, which the real match up here amounts down to “how good are your javs and how much quantity do they have?”. Historically, if you are against a peak level Shield Barb who has top notch gear and is being wielded by a great player that knows what he is doing, you won’t be able to win as a Bowa with Eth Up’d Titan’s only. You need to be on a Bowa with top notch gear, including a good strong set of Eth Rare Cruel Fool Self-Rep Mat Javas. The extra damage output is significant and nearly mandatory in a match up like Shield Barb vs. Bowa. What the Shield Barb does essentially, is he forces you into a situation where you are trading blows with him. There is no dancing around and avoiding everything like you could vs. a Sorc or Hammerdin. No, you will get hit from the Barb often, and he will get hit from you often. So it amounts down to who has the most optimized stats. Those Eth Rare Cruel Fool Self-Rep Mat Javas are essential here or you’ll always be on the losing end vs. really good Shield Barbs or things like really good Charger/Smiters “who also force you into trading blows”.

Aside from the realities behind the attributes there ^ all you can really do is get good at knowing when to walk for 75% block and when to run to optimizes your position to turn to fire before needing to walk again to tank WWs. You’ll get used to it.

Just understand that Bowa vs. Shield Barb is one of those nearly 100% javside match ups. You just aren’t going to be using your bow often if ever vs. the Shield Barb. Expect to be stuck javside and only ever use your bow if he teleports far away and reproaches, giving you time for a short volley before needing to go javside again. If you mess up and swap bow at the wrong time vs Barb, you pretty much automatically die.

These kinds of duels where strong Bowa is vs. strong Shield Barb, it can be quite elongated to the point that a single round can eat through your entire javelin quantity. This is when life rep is important. You definitely want to swap w/e belt your using and wear a perfect Dungo’s. Any other life rep mods become important here, like life rep on a rare ring, or even life rep on a rare jewel in your Stormshield. Just a heads up because the Barbs will absolutely abuse their life rep with double HOTO for BO side. They teleport away from you and run around the Blood Moor to get life back. ← Yet another reason why 150% run is so important. You need to be able to chase to secure the kills.

Be careful when you chase to secure the kill because this is when they like to do the momentum shift. You think that Barb is at 10% health so you chase him with bowside, but that’s when they can come out of a blind teleport and kill you in 1 WW pass.

Some people “depending on what rules are being used” will take off their bow vs. Shield Barb and just wear CTA for fast reapplication of BO. Some people also take the bow off and put on Lacerator so they have a method of tagging an amp damage on the Barb for a fast sudden kill if he can’t react quickly enough. You will however, always need jav/stormshield vs. Barbs though. Absolutely no way around it.

~ Best advice I can give you before this new patch drops. A lot will likely change and then I’ll have to update this guide all over again ^^

1 Like
92

Thanks so much for the detailed info. Very informative and well explained. My Bowazon is rocking thanks to the info contained in this guide & its ongoing discussions.

I came across this guide after I’d already made my way through the game to Act 3 Hell. (solo on Bnet). My Zon was spoilt for gear - I’d basically holy grail’d prior to making her (but no Griffons, hence I made a bowazon). Absolutely awesome to see some recognition for the Skystrike and Buriza as levelling bows!

My initial build was a fire/frozen from IcyVeins. Once again, all the info here speaks the truth; elemental is all fine and dandy (and very fun in the Maggot lair) until Act 3 Hell, when it all just kind of falls apart.

Very proud to say my Bowa is rocking all of the elite gear (socket +15 Mav’s, +15 Fana GMB.) I just have the crafted gloves, Pride, and a few FRW charms to go. Still a totally killer build lacking these things.

So, massive thanks OP and all who chimed in - I’ve learned a lot and absolutely loving this build!

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93

Guys, can you enlighten me how bad usage of Mal’s set (full or partial)? providing no Faith/Pride yet?
I have all but chest - which I can put Fort
Diadem have nice IAS and be augmented with ED/IAS (have 34/15 atm) … gloves have also nice IAS and track load str/dextr, belt have FRW/ML all together seems may be not prefect but decent?

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I also despise the WF + Pride or WF + faith variant. With the WF+Pride, you hit slower, can’t use atma with 9fpa properly and the attack rating sucks. With the faith variant, the roque doesn’t contribute much, is far away too often so you end up with 9fpa and shatty attack rating.
My suggestion for a PVM zon would be:
Budget
3os tiara with 3x 15ias/max dmg jewels or mavinas with 1x15ias one
cat’s eye
fortitude or enigma or lionheart (very underrated)
windforce with eth rune
double ravenfrosts
LoH
razortail
wartraveler

You hit the 9fpa BP, save up points in pierce or can wear thundergods in baalruns, have got damage and mobility, not fast enough for atma’s amulet so leave it at home for cat’s eye. I’d suggest a reaper’s toll might merc for this setup.

Mid version would be any faith with a might reaper merc and the highend version any faith with might+pride merc and atma on.

The WF+Act1 or WF+Pride isn’t worth it because you can build a faith bow for the price of a pride. You’re always better off with faith on yourself.

1 Like
95

I have a question with picking a choice of jewel.
All the guides will tell me to socket those 40ed 15 ias jewel…but when I run the math in MOST ppl’s case socketing 15 max with ias or 30 max jewel will grant more dmg so is there something I’m missing about gaining something else from stacking enhanced damage?

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it’s depends on type of bow you are using for most is ED/IAS but for some is MAX/IAS or even MAX/ED (depends if you are able break 7fpa or not)

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I’m using shadow bow faith 15/2
My inven is stacked with max dmg charm but still when I do the math max dmg jewel will yield the ed jewel…so if someone like me stacked on max dmg but still a max dmg jewel will outdo an ed dmg jewel, feels like most ppl will be better off on max jewel.

98

Juni, you need to make sure you are checking the average damage output between the 40%ed jewel and the +15max, not just the max damage side on your character screen. The 40%ed jewel is adding to both minimum and maximum damage. The +15max is only adding to maximum damage side.

It is possible that in some situations, such as a full DEX zon with elite gear who already has a lot of ed% on the character, that it could benefit more average damage output by taking away 1x 40/15ias and putting a 15/15ias in its place. But you need to be very careful with this because every time you remove hard ed% it effects all of the other flat damage you have on the character including the weapon damage.

Also, remember that when you are javelinside, you do not benefit the fanat aura and your global ed% mod goes down. And even in pvp, your merc won’t be alive to give you might/conc either. When those sources of global ed% are no effecting you, the 40%ed should be adding more average damage output than a +15max.

Some things to consider when you recheck the numbers there. Just make sure you are looking at average damage output, not maximum damage. Average damage is what counts.

1 Like
99

yes of course I’ve done the min dmg calculation too but I guess maybe its b/c I’m stacked on dex rite now? Its at 461 I’m going to respec to vita for pvp… maybe that’ll have a diff outcome.

100

ok, I’m glad you responded and told me that. I’m actually going to take the time to make a mathematical comparison here because now you’ve got me curious about this. I’m going to use statistically decked out pvp vitazon as an example here. Check back to this post in about 30 minutes and I should have it hammered out ^^

  1. Let’s consider it is wearing: Diamond Faith, 45/120, Fortitude, Verdungo, Cleg’s “we kind of have to use these now due to changes in D2r. The 25% slow is rather mandatory vs. certain things now”, War Trav, Cat’s Eye, Raven, a good Rare Dual Leech Ring with let’s say +4min and +6max on it, Torch/Anni/Cube BO & enough +all res SCs for about +30 over max, and then it will room for about 20x +3max for a total of around +90max in the inventory. The zon would need and want no more than between 225 and 250 DEX “total of base DEX added + DEX mods from gear” while on javside with shield to maintain max block depending on where it sits between lv 90 and 95, rest of stat dump goes into VITA. Let’s say the zon is actually using strong Eth Rare Cruel Fool Self Rep IAS Mat Javs as an upgrade over Titan’s, so it isn’t benefitting +DEX on swap to Titan’s with Stormshield. So we can reliably say that the Bowa has around 225 DEX mod bonus while bowside.
  2. We are looking at these ed% bonuses → 225% from DEX, lv15fanat 288%, 120% from helm, 300% Fortitude, for a total global 933%ed that effects weapon damage and all sources of min & max. A Perfect Diamond Faith will have 146-178 weapon damage. Then we have the +15-25 off War Trav, the +90 from charms, and the +4-6 on the ring, for a total of 165-299 outgoing effective weapon damage with a standard attack. The average damage output will be 232 and when that is modified with the 933%ed global, it will become a standard attack with an average damage output value of 2164.
  3. Now let’s take that exact same equation and change a single 40%ed/15%ias in the Diadem into a +15max/15%ias. TLDR > the effective weapon damage becomes 165-314 with an average of 239 and the global ed% becomes 893%. We are looking at a standard attack with an actual average output of 2134. This is already lower than before and these values will continue to drop in efficiency the more 40/15ias that are replaced with 15/15ias due to how the ed% effects everything globally both min and max side. It’s safe to say that on a pvp VITA based build, ed% is the way to go.
  4. HOWEVER, it occurs to me while running these numbers that while using a GMB or a WF that has very low minimum damage, that the loss of some ed% in favor a single +15max or maybe two of them, might actually be advantageous, especially if it is on a pvm build with 400+ DEX. But it should be noted now that Diamond Bow is the best pvp bow for several reasons. 1) VITA is the most important thing in pvp due to the interaction with Battle Orders and how it allows Zons to really abuse their dodge/avoid/evades the more VITA they have which ultimately equates to a great deal of sustain. 2) Diamond Bow has the lowest DEX req out of all the bows and is only .5 average damage lower than Shadow. The Diamond Bow allows for the most gain in vitality while bowside. 3) Diamond of course only requires 65%ias for 7fpa and actually allows you room to do things like wear Cleg’s or Drac’s or even a 2os Rare Diadem if you are wearing 20%ias knockback gloves. But I want to take a look at this next and final point just for an any future reference →
  5. First let’s use the same exact vita pvp equation but replace the Diamond with a GMB. First let’s consider it is using all 40%ed/15%ias jewels. Perfect GMB Faith is 62-320 weapon damage. This added with our misc 19-121 from Travs/Charms ect, will become 81-441, with an average of 261, modified by 933% and we get a standard attack with avg output of 2435. Now if we change a single 40/15 into a 15/15, we get 81-456 with an avg of 268 that will be modified by 893% making for a standard attack with avg output of 2393. This is still lower with a pvp vita equation.
  6. Now finally, let’s look at a crazy high DEX zon in pvm that uses GMB. Using the same equation, but let’s consider that Zon has 450 DEX. This is +225% more ed than the previous equation. Let’s start by looking at the use of all 40/15ias. The average damage will still begin with 81-441 with an avg of 261. But the global ed% is now 1158%. When modified that 261 becomes a standard attack with avg output of 3022. If change 1x 40/15ias into a 15/15ias, we end up with 81-456 avg of 268 again. The global ed% mod drops to 1118% and makes for a standard attack with avg output of 2996, which is surprisingly still lower.

I’m actually surprised. I honestly thought that in the case of a PVM DEX zon using GMB that substituting 1x 40%ed/15%ias for a +15max/15%ias, that it would actually be advantageous to just do ONE of them like that. But these numbers are definitely showing that 40%ed global is just stronger than +15max during the end-game when you have all gear setup correctly and a good inventory already full of +max.

Thank you for stirring this question btw. This was a reference point that we needed in this thread ^^

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101

Thank you so much!
Me and my friend is waiting on ur calc.