FOH paladin is actually OP as hell and should not go live in this state

I’ve assembled a “starter” end game paladin: level 71, spirit sword + 20@ spirit shield, stealth, lore, nokozan, some +res boots\belt\gloves, holy freeze merc with exceptional insight, tal mask and goldskin.

I’ve tested this in P1 single player chaos sanctuary.

I’ve specc’d him into HDin and Into FOHdin and FOHdin is much stronger. The raw damage on the hammer is significantly bigger (about 50% more), but the FOH AOE is much higher, and most importantly - much safer - you can stand literally anywhere and shoot down FOH. The huge heals on the holy bolt also help the merc. E.g. can use this when fighting diablo, make a line hero-diablo-merc, deal damage and heal at the same time.

As HDin, it was much harder to play at this level of gear, because you have to put yourself in the harms way for shooting hammers properly. You cannot snipe down oblivion knights from the distance too.

The disadvantage of not being able to kill animals fast is not enough.

IMO, the damage of FOH’s holy bolt should be scaled down a bunch. It will still be good but not THAT good… Maybe limit the number of bolts shot? Or maybe just bring the cooldown back to where it was. Will also satisfy the PVP folks.


I have tested both HDin and FOH. Player 1 and Player 8 settings. Both in MF Gear. Same gear exact gear for both. Hammerdin whooped the FOH in Player 8 farming. FOH beat hammerdin in player 1 farming. FOH is not S Tier and not OP. A Tier. Not S Tier.


No it’s not OP. It does less damage than a Hammerdin, and has less areas it can (efficiently) farm than a Sorc.


when he can farm CS in scraps that is not really a problem, isn’t it?

Being really good in a handful of areas early on in a ladder does not make a spec OP.

Unless you are also calling to nerf Hammerdin, Smiter, Blizz Sorc, Trapsin, Javazon, and any Necro build with CE. Then you need to move on. Because they all are very strong in some areas with little gear.


Yes. Chaos is the highest rate of return area in the game. The top ladder running meta is going to be holy fire zealer >respec> FoHdin at hell chaos >respec> Hammderdin when geared.

It’s going to be the first meta in hardcore that allows you to completely turn off your brain and end up with gg gear at the end.

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Wait so now the being a strong stepping stone build makes it OP?

You guys crack me up.


Yes. The problem with the FoHdin is the ease with which it can farm gg gear.

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It’s going to be the first meta in hardcore that allows you to completely turn off your brain and end up with gg gear at the end.

The start of your post seemed reasonable, but as a PSA this is very much incorrect and way over-exaggerated. If you try Chaos Sanc and turn off your brain in noob gear and charge into random packs, prepare to make a new char because you will die in seconds just like any other character without CTA/max resists.

If you try to stay back and pick off the enemies at range, you’ll be fine, though. But this is true for dual-element sorceresses, too, and don’t underestimate the killing power of Frozen Orb (main killer) + something else on lower player counts.


Are you listening to yourself?

You all admit it’s not the strongest build with gear. You admit it’s not the best to level through Norm, NM and first half of Hell.

You can’t possibly argue it’s faster than Sorc at farming Meph / Andy.

It can’t even do Cows, which is the best place to farm bases and debatably top 3 for farming runes. (not counting LK players8 nonsense)

So with all those negatives, you think this ability needs nerfed. I hope devs do not listen to people like you.


I think a cap on bolts released and increased cast delay back to 1s would be reasonable. It “suffers” from the same issue as lightning fury where the bigger the mob is the more powerful it becomes, it should at least get a cap of bolts like lightning fury.

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no. that just makes a skill feel bad to use. Let alone focus a build around.


The FoHdin runs are going to be pindle, trav, and chaos. That is going to smack meph / andy / cows for drops per hour. It’s not even the same ballpark.

Also, sorc is not not nearly as good in HC. This change is going to wildly alter HC balance.

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Feels fine to me. It hits like a truck, it doesn’t have to be spammy as well. There are such things as over buffing. I don’t think the build won’t be viable anymore if it was brought down a bit. Right now you have an auto targeting spell that has enough aoe to hit everything on and off screen. I know easy mode is tempting, but there should still be some challenges left in this game.


I’ve done a fully decked out FOHdin now too, and he is indeed weaker than an HDin with the same gear. However, that mostly comes from the ability of an end game paladin to be a tank with max block and resists.

Meanwhile the advantage of the FOHdin is how safe and precise FOH and holy bolt are. I don’t remember any other skill that lets you shoot down oblivion knights just like that.

The AoE also feels a lot like Lightning Fury.


lol foh is no where near op…


could you try to present your point with more arguments other than “lol”

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FoH is not overpowered. Let another fun build live. Until they nerf blizz/lightning skills with infinity/hammerdin, no other skill is actually OP. As others have mentioned, FoH excels in a select few areas and is absolute garbage in other areas.


If blizzard nerfs FoH for basically no reason and keeping hdin / java as is, they can just aswell skip all balancing in the future.

Theres people out there that are afraid of FoH dins getting more value in mfing than their standard blizzard mote tricking meph sorc. And those are upset and want a nerf, right?

Or whats the deal?


I agree that FoH is too strong and should be nerfed a bit. I think the holy bolt dmg is fine. Limit the number of holy bolt? Idk. But Blizzard absolutely need to bring back the cooldown over 1sec.

I hate that everybody compares builds to the best builds… We dont want any other builds as OP as Hdin, blizsorc, Fury Javazon. Those are just the easy mode. Just because these are way too strong doesnt mean everything must be buffed to their lvl…

Use the gameplay to evaluate the power of the char. FoH can be casted quickly, from far away, no need to target an ennemy, deals aoe dmg, the character can clear naked with ease… that’s pretty much the definition of too strong. There is no risk, full reward. YES, HDIN IS STILL BETTER… everybody knows it. FoH doesnt need to be as strong as it is now to be fun to play.

Holy bolt piercing targets and Being able to dmg demons is enough.