Expand Runeword Bases

General Discussion
1

Before Blizzard releases future Patch 2.5, I wanted to share with the development team a few ideas to expand runeword bases to further fuel build diversity as follows…

Black

  • Can now be made in Spears
    • This runeword adds options for mid-game spearzon or used on Act 2 merc

Crescent Moon

  • Can now be made in Claws & Daggers
    • This runeword is a perfect candidate to be made in claws and opens up build diversity for assassins. And don’t forget about dagger barbs

Death / Destruction / Doom

  • Can now be made in Maces
    • These runewords add more options for pursuing mace mastery as a barb

Honor

  • Can now be made in Bows & Crossbows
    • This adds an option for 5os bows and xbows outside of high runes for early game bowazons

Insight

  • Can now be made in Spears
    • This runeword should be allowed in spears since allowed in polearms

Lawbringer

  • Can now be made in Claws
    • This runeword adds options for bladesin while getting benefits from claw mastery

Leaf

  • Can now be made in Wands & Sorc. Orbs
    • Sorceresses more likely to use in a staff for staff mods, but Leaf would be useful in a wand for a low-level Fire Druid, and even potentially useful for a full Fire Necromancer (e.g Full Trang’s running Fire Golem). Lastly, should be possible to create Leaf in sorceress orbs as well

Steel

  • Can now be made in Claws & Daggers
    • This runeword is another low-level option for claws and daggers

Stone

  • Can now be made in Shields
    • This runeword could be an interesting choice for defensive-oriented characters

Unbending Will

  • Can now be made in Hammers
    • This runeword has a huge boost to enhanced damage, expanding to hammers would be a great addition (available to ogre mauls/thunder mauls and their exceptional variants)

Wealth

  • Can now be made in Helms
    • This runeword allows option for significant gold find and magic find bonus on helmet
5 Likes
2

Enigma

  • Can now be made in Shields and Helms
    • gives more options to end game and pvp, imagine triple Enigma.
1 Like
3

Already told it

Just make it

  • all weapons

  • 2 handers

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d2r/t/instead-of-new-runewords-for-25…-i’d-gladly-take-restrictions-removaltone-down/137608

Wanna make a White dagger, go for it

Wanna make a infinity staff, go for it

Wanna make exile monarch… go for it

Wanna make ice colossus blade… go for it

1 Like
4

Sure, I’d like that. It’d benefit Claws of Thunder/Phoenix strike but since -Enemy Lightning Resist% doesn’t apply to traps it wouldn’t make the trapsin overpowered either.

Claws and daggers are rather lacking on runewords and Crescent Moon isn’t overly powerful I think.

Death

  • Can now be made in Maces
    • This runeword adds more options for pursuing mace mastery as a barb

Sounds good to me, maces are also rather lacking on runewords compared to swords/axes and it’d be cool to give additional use to ethereal scourges.

You’d also need to make it available to the “hammer” subclass to make it in ogre mauls and thunder mauls which would also be really cool I think.

Insight

  • Can now be made in Swords
    • This runeword allows players to use meditation aura on Act 3 or Act 5 merc

I’m not really a fan of this idea, Insight was already expanded to bows which I think was good but I don’t think it should be the defacto early/mid game weapon for all mercs. I think it’s also purposefully restricted to 2H weapons.

Lawbringer

  • Can now be made in Bows & Crossbows
    • This runeword gives more options to use decrepify and sanctuary aura on ranged characters or Act 1 merc

An interesting idea, though it does infringe on Wrath’s niche as the ranged weapon with Decrepify (20% ctc level 1 Decrep on striking for the cost of a Ber rune) while being much cheaper to make. Unsure about this one.

Unbending Will

  • Can now be made in Axes
    • This runeword has a huge boost to enhanced damage, it greatly benefits from being made in an ethereal berserker axe

As mentioned earlier I think axes already have lots of good runeword choices (Steel, Honor, Crescent Moon, Oath, etc.), I think a better alternative would be to allow UW in hammers.

Similarly to my point about Insight earlier, I think the devs purposefully restricted UW to mainly 2H weapons (yes you can make it in a phase blade but it’s a weak base with poor damage) so adding it to hammers would maintain that restriction (only available to ogre mauls/thunder mauls and their exceptional variants).

As for why I think they mainly intended UW for 2H usage (for other classes besides barbs that can wield 2H swords in 1H), I think it’s because it’d be too powerful on 1H weapons for the cost. Compare UW to Oath for example, UW has a tighter damage range (300-350 vs 210-340), life leech (8-10 vs 0) and arguably better secondary stats (Taunt proc, reduced requirements, strength, vitality, damage reduction vs energy, magic absorb, and HotW/Iron Golem charges that mostly go unused).

It’s also much easier to acquire a base for UW than Oath (6 socket vs 4 socket, meaning you can Larzuk any war spike or berserker axe while Oath would need to either drop with 4 sockets or hope you get 4 sockets with the cube, a 1/6 chance).

Admittedly Oath has much better IAS and the self-repair attribute which allows it to be made in ethereal weapons (it’d take a while to find a good ethereal elite base with 4 sockets), but still I think the power would be too great for the cost. UW’s highest rune is Fal while Oath takes a Pul and Mal.

Sorry if I got a little convoluted there, I hope my point got across. :stuck_out_tongue:

TL;DR: Between uniques and runewords I think axes/1H weapons have enough choices currently, I think it’d be a better move to allow Unbending Will in hammers to allow more choices for hammer/2H weapon usage.

2 Likes
5

I want to see Plague in Paladin scepters or ALL weapons. In combination and to add to your insight idea, I would love an Insight to be made in Shields.

2 Likes
6

LOL, put enigma in a helm + armor just for the STr/FRH/MF/+ skills and DR. The meta would be 2x enimas on nearly everyone!

Imagine the power of enigma in druid/barbarian helms → would be busted AF

7

I’d rather see Lawbringer in a Claw base. Would open up Tiger Strike and Physical MA Sin so that we don’t have to rely on Merc for PI debuff. While Lawbringer in Bow/XBow infringes on Wrath, the point behind it is giving Sanctuary Aura to A1 Merc(and Amazons). Now it’d have to coincide with an addition to Sanctuary to apply to ranged attacks or the Merc won’t benefit offensively. Wrath could use an update but as for what is TBD.

2 Likes
8

Sounds good. Destruction as well.

Oppose. Act 5 Merc does not need Insight to be useful. Act 3 merc deficiencies should be approached in a different way.

Not sure about this. But isn’t this one of the reasons to use a Act 3 or 5 Merc?

Oppose. Axes got plenty of love already. And Unbending Will makes me think of swords and spears. How about that, letting it be made in a Spear? Give those two handed weapon barbs a bone.

The rune word base expansions I’d suggest are:

Leaf

Let it be made in a wand. Sorceresses will still be more likely to use it in a Staff for the staff mods, but Leaf would be useful in a wand for a low to mid level Fire Druid, and even potentially useful for a full Fire Necromancer. (IE Full Trang’s running a Fire Golem).

Edge

Let it be made in a dagger. It’d be potentially slightly useful for a Poison Dagger necromancer.

Pattern

Let it be made in Orbs. Orbs have a severe lack of rune words, and Pattern’s Faster Block rate (actually 33% fewer frames for a Sorceress), + Resistances, and + Attributes all make it an intriguing alternative defensive runeword for a Sorceress. Most will pass on it due to lack of Faster Cast, but it would have some edge case uses for builds that don’t need Faster Cast, and would prefer the defensive advantages during Nightmare.

Steel

Let it be made in Daggers and Claws as well. They use steel as well, so why not?

Strength

Let it be made in Orbs. For some strange reason wands count as Melee Weapons but Orbs do not. Let this be in Orbs as well, might be used if a Sorceress needs the +20 Strength while leveling.

Bone

Allow it to be made in daggers.

Sanctuary

Allow to be made in Orbs. An upgraded form of Pattern for a defensive oriented Sorceress, willing to forgo Faster Cast.

Splendor

Allow to be made in Helms, Scepters, and Orbs. Makes a nice alternative to Lore and will actually see use in helmets. The name fits with being made in helmets, scepters, and orbs. Unlikely to be used in Scepters or Orbs unless someone really wants Magic/Gold Find but might as well give the option.

1 Like
9

Agreed.

Lets have BOTD, Lawbringer, Doom and Beast in the mix also please.

1 Like
10

Agreed and updated OP to include Unbending Will to hammers, Steel as a low-level option for claws and daggers, and Insight as an option for shields.

1 Like
11

Enigma is expensive end game item, it would take some time before you find 2/3 Ber 2/3 Jah, and yeah Dru, Barb and melee need some love, at last it would open space in armor slot (eg for Forty) and Spirit wouldnt be bis anymore.

12

I would also add spears to the mix, so there’s an incentive to choose a Lightning Strike Spear build over a Lightning Fury Javelin build, since the -% light res and Open Wounds can make a spear perform better than a javelin in the midgame. Make spears actually viable before having Infinity

I strongly disagree on this one. Insight is already cheap and powerful enough so making it viable on 1 handed weapons or shields would certainly break balance. I would like Insight for 2 Handed Swords and Spears (please, more Spear Amazon love. Also, more bases available for Act 2 mercs), though.

This would probably be a very budget friendly option for Physical Damage Bowazons. I don’t know how broken it would be, but it would certainly be fun as hell.

More claw love is always good, mate.

Some of my ideas are:

Black

  • Can now be used on spears

    Again, more options for a mid game Spearzon (Fend, Lightning Strike Hybrids), makes it usable on Act 2 Mercs for cheap crushing blows and opens more possibilities for a Leap Attack Barbarian. Knockback could be fun with those builds.

Sanctuary

  • Can be now used in helms

    This way you can have an alternative to Kira’s Guardian, that while it doesn’t have cannot be frozen, you can use +skill helms for druid and barbarian to compensate, while also take advantage of the modifiers, and make a nice tank.

Rift

  • Now works on swords

    The runeword with some of the best procs can’t be used on a Phase Blade? Please, Blizzard.

That’s from the top of my head. Nice thread mate!

1 Like
13

As a quick glimpse, I see many suggestions were removed. Good that you use feedback wisely.

Crescent Moon
Death / Destruction / Doom
Steel
Unbending Will

All good.

Lawbringer
This actually sounds awesome! This would really be an Act1 merc alternative. Cold roque + lawbringer + Wisdom helm would be ultimate Crowd control merc. It adds to variety. I like it!

Insight
Now this is what I see as problematic.
Especially if it could be made both in Sword and Shield, its too overpowered. For melee and casters as well. Let me elaborate.

Casters angle:
Compared to Spirit you get 100% chance to get 35% Faster cast rate + Meditation aura. Thats just go-to shield for casters instead Spirit. What is +2 skills to infinite mana source? Immortal sorc ascended to Godhood.

Melee angle:
Imagine having a cheap version of Fortitude, but on Shield providing that sweet block chance.
+200-260% Enhanced Damage
180-250% Bonus to Attack Rating
+1-6 To Critical Strike
…these 3 combined are too strong stats.
…And I mean I like such stats or if such shield could be made. It would help melee chars. But I don’t like its cost of Ral Tir Tal Sol.

Now for Sword Insight - also for its cheap cost it would became “Spirit for melee”. I dont like such improvement. Invalidates any Unique Set weapons for Normal/Nightmare difficulty even more. Entire strategy would do become “make Insight sword, progress to Nightmare. Make stronger Insight sword, progress to Hell”.

4 Likes
14

I agree with Entaro on Insight. It shouldn’t be made for Swords or Shields because of the fact it’d make PvM and especially PvP imbalanced(ES Sorceress with infinite Mana… yeah that’s going to go over well). I know the only reason it was suggested was to boost Act 3 Mercenary but also it’d make Abbot/Cleric Paladins that much stronger since they’d roll with both Plague(Weapon) and Insight(Shield) along with a 3rd aura of their choosing(probably Prayer given that Meditation would offset the Mana drain, hence 3 times the passive healing… or Vigor(movement speed), Salvation(insane FCL Resistance), Fanaticism, or Conviction).

2 Likes
15

Good points raised for Insight. However, I’d like to also add that you could remove the FCR and crit from the shield option. Normally, if a runeword has an alternative base, it’s slightly different.

Why can’t the Abbot have some love though? I think immortal sorcs kind of need that flat PDR/MDR in the shield spot

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Enigma in helms/shields I said, eventually for shields.

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It’s true that Shield variant of Insight would be different. In fact, it’d be the following:

Insight(Ral + Tir + Tal + Sol)
Shield
Level 12-17 Meditation Aura When Equipped (varies)
+35% Faster Cast Rate
+200-260% Enhanced Damage (varies)
Damage Reduced by 7
180-250% Bonus to Attack Rating (varies)
+35% Fire Resistance
+35% Poison Resistance
+1-6 To Critical Strike (varies)
+5 To All Attributes
+2 To Mana After Each Kill
23% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Sol rune’s Minimum Damage goes to Damage Reduced by 7(PDR), Ral/Tal’s Fire/Poison Damage become 35% Resistance respectively and Tir remains the same(+2 Mana per kill). You get Meditation aura, +5 to all Attributes(Maras in Shield form), Enhanced Damage on a Shield(which for a melee build is insane for the COST), 35% Faster Cast Rate(perfect Spirit roll anyone?), Magic Find(modest but still nice from a Shield slot), Insane boost to Attack Rating and Critical Strike(which is basically free Deadly Strike).

Now imagine that in a 45 All Resistance base for Paladins and you’ll see why this is so OP. All you lose is 2 Skills and 55 FHR(plus some Vitality) when compared to Spirit, which really doesn’t mean much given their FHR changes in PvP. Clerics/Abbots are a niche build and shouldn’t be catered to at the expense of game balance. Paladins are already strong as it is. This would make them too strong imo.

18

Agreed and removed Insight from the list.

Agreed. Those are solid suggestions and added to the list.

19

They are different because runewords have both the runeword effects, and the effects of the runes themselves. And rune effects are different depending on shield vs armor vs weapon. Faster Cast is not affected.

The different effects are the Ral rune which becomes 35% Fire Resist instead of + Fire Damage, the Tal Rune which becomes 35% Poison Resist instead of poison damage, and the Sol Rune which becomes Damage reduced by 7 instead of +9 to Minimum damage. Nothing else would change, and this would actually make Insight even better in a shield than it is in a weapon.

20

Rift is one of the few runewords in the Barb Mace class (ie Scepters). Rather than making Rift in Swords, let it be made in Maces (ie a Scourge). That would keep the flavor of it being a mace runeword instead of making everything in Phase Blades.

2 Likes