Not needing infinity is a plus, as you can invest those funds into some other areas. “Death’s Fathom and Sundering Charm are the only possible upgrades”
You sure man? Like have you even tried reading what I wrote or some build order on the interner, or you know, tried actually playing and seeing for yourself?
Nightwing’s Veil, facets, cold skillers, perfect ormus robe (+3 blizzard, +15% cold damage), crafted amulet, and some other cheaper bits and bobs are all crucial upgrades that make you way stronger.
I see no reason to talk to you as you really don’t know what you are talking about
Cold damage is way lower than fire or lighting. Nerfing to 1/5 would make the damage too low in comparison I think 1/3 effectiveness will do.
I feel like you’re just being contrarian without actually making a cohesive argument. You just want to be right. The stuff you’re saying is not compelling support for your argument, it’s just "well whatabout"ism to make yourself seem more credible.
Your original point, in summary, was: Cold Master makes Blizzard Sorc more powerful than all other elemental builds (given sundering + the recent changes to infinity & LR). Your recommendation to redress the imbalance was to make CM function either under the same 1/5 or some other middle-of-the-road option of 1/3 or 1/2. Right?
My point was: Unreduced CM doesn’t make Blizzard Sorc the unchallenged best character in the game. Instead, it solidifies its role as a build that has a strong budget build; then one key upgrade (that sundering charm); then only minor upgrades as it approaches the top BIS End. My point was never that upgrades don’t exist at all. My point was that after you get your Sundering Charm, your upgrades are less effective than their counterparts in other elemental specs. (What I’m calling a ceiling).
- Fathom, Viel, and Ormus are significant upgrades. On par with Crescent Moon and Flickering Flame (and different Ormus). So, fine, we have 3 milestones that are the same.
- Infinity for other elemental builds is a massive power spike; by contrast for a sundering blizzard sorc Infinity isn’t relevant, so your BIS upgrades and just how much DPS your merc does. There is no comparable upgrade for the sorc here.
- You bring up Facets. Facets are only 1/2 as effective for a Sundering Blizzard Sorc because the -Res% doesn’t do anything. So for other builds, Facets are bigger upgrades.
- Skillers are similar. All caster builds want Skillers, but for Fire Sorc and Light Sorc they get not only their +X to main skill but also +X to mastery. Blizzard spec only benefits from the +X to blizzard.
- Hitting higher FCR Breakpoints for Light Sorc or Hammerdins are additional upgrades that are not as relevant to Blizzard Sorc. So even things like Crafted Amulets are more valuable to other caster builds trying to hit those 105/125 breakpoints. Sure a Blizzard Sorc can teleport faster - but the other specs can Teleport faster AND increase damage.
Either all skills should do the exact same amount of damage or… oh wait that would be nonsense.
what the devs did… even leaving cold mastery alone… was smart.
they did exactly what the orginal devs did
they only put 1/5th penalty on skills that can BREAK immune which is the only time it ever applied.
and do u really want to see 1/5th on amp and decrepify?
melee doesn’t need to be punished even more.
cold mastery i am ok with trying out for 1 season because the math behind her is really complex and i blizzard would need more data to get an accurate number… instead of just throwing out 1/5th or 1/3rd
and she may not even need it.
she will be certainly stronger in early hell but by the time fire and light reach max building im pretty sure they will outdamage cold sorc again.
what i think shoudl be done is remove the pentalty given to your character
at LEAST on melee and magic.
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They don’t.
Cold damage receives zero bonuses apart from a maximum bonus of 195% bonus damage from cold mastery, versus immune monsters.
The average damage bonus from Cold Mastery is 100-130%.
With pretty great gear including a hellfire torch, a cold sorceress can have about 5000 damage ice blast, 7000 damage Blizzard, and a 2500 damage Glacial Spike.
Now.
Any monster will take twice that damage, because everything takes 200% that damage: -100% resistances.
…
Now, the same sorceress with fire skills has a 15 000 damage Fireball, and deals 40 000 damage from a meteor impact.
Blizzard deals 14 000 damage per hit to 95% resistant monsters – after cold mastery.
With Flickering Flame and Phoenix reducing 95% to 52%, a Fireball deals 7500 damage, and meteor impact deals 15 000 damage with 1100 fire damage per second.
They are very comparable.
But most importantly:
That is without infinity.
And without the Sunder Charm, cold doesn’t break immunities.
You need to actually find the cold sunder charm to get the effect.
It’s going to have a hefty starting price – roughly Jah or Ber or even two Ber – the first week.
Both Fire and Lightning are better, however, without infinity, with endgame gear.
Cold cannot deal more than 195% extra damage – while fire and Lightning get 7% more damage per skillpoint in fire mastery, and get exponentially more damage from their respective rainbow facets, because monsters aren’t -100% resistant, and thus they get a lot of of bonus damage from facets.
And there’s other classes than sorceress.
For literally every other class, there’s no difference between the elements.
Except the physical sunder charm being near useless and magic sunder being absolutely useless.
Blizzard is a decently high damage even without the cold master, however there should not be a nerf to cold mastery, just a nerf to it’s interaction with the Sunder Charm.
As the charms aren’t even live yet it effective wouldn’t even be a nerf.
Just make it 1/5th effectiveness on Sundered monsters like the Convic/LR and its done for now, though with these charms entering the game and all the new stuff an overhaul should be in the making imo.
And? So play a cold sorc. Your problem is solved.
the asked nerf is towards sundered enemys(like convic and LR nerf)
so your dmg would still be the same in AT if thats what your concern
i agree with the OP but this would require to make CM another separate thing bc right now it is coded exactly like any -res%
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Yes, exactly this. In our argument we lost sight of the original issue. It of course should only apply to sundered mobs, thank you for returning us on track
I don’t know why people keep talking about this, it ONLY effects your 1/5 on lower resist and conviction because skills based around those 2 moves are frickin OP as it is. Fire will be just fine once you are geared. Get your fire facets, get your minus reisistance fire gear, and fully stack all fire spells and you will hit hard as a semi every fireball, every hydra, every meteor, like you fire wall alone does 20k dmg a second and annihilates bosses, lol.
And lightning builds need to just sit down…those have always been top tier endgame sunder charm or not.
All builds endgame will do great, just calm TF down everyone.
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And most importantly: Unnerf WB attackspeed. Fireclaws are in the dumpster.
oh man f, if there is any nerf happen (even before the actual buff is even there) people go crazy and crying, yes literally crying to buff the power more in this game or make stuff easier. so disgusting, also all the bla bla about cold be too strong not even checking the real numbers, because if you guys did you would see what really happens. go play with your coldsorc while the lightning sorc is still twice as fast xD i hope everyone is aware of cold mastery does not increase the dmg the same way as LM and FM does.
Does people really ask for taking away the 1/5 penatly just after getting a sunder charm? holy moly man
they didnt nerf werebear attack speed, they removed the double dipping on attack speed on wep and made it accept attack speed from all scources and the buffed the base attack speed to match humans
all this means that bears maul/fireclaw speed cap is at 6 frames and hunger is at 5
https://chthonvii.github.io/d2r_24ptr2_wereform_calculator/
what they need to do is give bear all new frames
like they did with wolf
or at least MATCH wolf frames
fireclaws is also gutted attack speed wise on wolf too at the high end, the problem is that fireclaws/ maul/ feral rage all use the same animation and therefore frames at thier respective “basic attack” for said form
and u cant just modify that scaling for basic attack without changing… well all other skills that use that animation
so basially they need to rework the werebear basic attack frame breakpoints to reach 5 frames and at a much lower lvl
also how much damage does maul do… i dont even know anymore
edit i found it
https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Maul_(Skill)
If u want to give 1/5 effectiveless, then first CM the ability to break cold immune by itself
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You haven’t a clue what your talking about. Maybe you don’t understand cold mastery has a hard cap of 195% more damage. Fire is over 300%. I think Lightning Mastery goes to over 500% more damage.
If Cold Mastery needs a nerf, it also needs a redesign, because it’s the weakest Sorc mastery by a considerable margin. It starts really strong but doesn’t scale.
Exactly. Can you imagine if Cold Mastery was nerfed by 80%? There would be better ways to spend 19 skill points.
That is one solution. The other is just what they had before - using whichever formula that gives the fastest attack. 
The funny part is that you guys talk about Sunder Charms like you start playing the season and they instantly drop, while most of the people even wont see them(especially the right charm with the right -resist) the entire season, because it is a high possibility that it just wont drop, like many other items.
Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? On sundered mobs, sundered, it’s in the title. Exactly how they made LR and infinity 1/5 effective on sundered mobs.
I think I’m just going to have to place you on ignore. You don’t have the ability to pose a good argument. Safe travels.
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