Are you going to use the royal “we” and extend a pinky while holding a teacup for your next act? lol
Teleport is so good that it makes everyone’s first ladder char HAVE to be a Sorc, unless they just want to deliberately progress through the season far slower than everyone else. Then the goal of said Sorc is to farm up enough wealth to make an Enigma so they can switch focus a different class they’d rather play, and be able to play it without falling behind or having juggle a staff and keep repairing it constantly. This is all solely because of Teleport.
The only way around this dynamic is with FG or a credit card, which I suspect is behind a lot of the opposition or lack of understanding of the problem. They can just start the char they actually want to play on Day 1 and just buy the Enigma a day or two later.
As for Enigma itself, yeah, it’s so good that to use virtually anything else on most builds is almost deliberately playing the game badly. For a game whose focus is on itemization, it’s sad that the armor slot is such a one-trick pony.
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Ehh you really don’t have to roll a sorc. You can just farm Trav/cows and make an enigma. That’s what I do.
TBH “competeing” in the ladder is just silly anyway. No normal person playing the game is going to the top. That’s the land of streamers and their simp armies. And guys that RMT/bot.
Way better to just play at your own pace and have fun with it.
I’m not talking about the race to 99, I’m talking about trying to get the other items needed for the fun builds like Infinities and Dreams, before the season is mostly over.
Ehh just stay off ladder ;P. It’s not like it matters really lol. TBH it’s kinda nice, you get an extra few month to play before Blizzard adds the next stupid thing.
It should limit the teleport. An example would be being able to teleport only in places that have already been explored, as it happens on the game map that only appears the path that has already been explored. With that, it would make the game more immersive to reality and logic. Teleportation is too OP, it takes almost 40% of the challenge out of the game.
Not really. Walking isn’t challenging… it’s just slow.
If anything I’d argue teleport increases the challenge. People using teleport to avoid packs lowers the challenge… but that’s player choice, not a problem with teleport. After all you can hit 99 and never leave act 1 hell.
Players choose their level of challenge ultimately. Teleport is just a tool.
Either way, D2 isn’t exactly a challenging game. It’s an RPG that you can “beat” nearly naked. That makes it one of the easier ones.
If you don’t like it… don’t use it. Why are you trying to destroy other people’s fun??
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Bro, no need to come up with weird solutions when there are elegant ones: add 1 sec cooldown to teleport AND make it so it does not go through walls. Problem kinda solved, it will just be used as an emergency escape mechanic, as it should.
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not very elegant. you’re just removing QoL from teleport and not fixing the root issue.
people simply need to ask themselves, why is teleport so essential on so many builds? fix those issues, then teleport is no longer overpowered.
How am I not fixing the issue if it can no longer be used to reach bosses in 0.0003 secs?
says who? under what evidence do you make that claim? did you know that pd2 effectively solved the teleport issue, and they did so without nerfing teleport (yes, it was originally nerfed, and then they realized how bad of an idea it is to give it a cd and debuff damage)? maps being best in slot to farm meant nobody needed to teleport to be competitive.
just take a second and really think about it. does a javazon need to teleport in cows to be the best cow farmer? the answer is no. she can teleport, but it does not offer any notable advantage other than helping to reposition the merc to your side.
let’s propose an extreme and unrealistic scenario to make a point: what if the best farming spot in the game was an rng tunnel based map (think something like act 2 tomb long sections but wider). the map only consisted of this but turned every so often, so you just have a bunch of long narrow pathways, and they all go in one direction. lets say theres no bosses in this area, its just monsters, but these monsters got great drop odds. lets say this map is accessible from town as well. do we then need teleport to be competitive for items? the logical conclusion would be no. density farming does not need teleport to be competitive if it is truly dense enough. does the map have to be static? nope, it does not. you do need to avoid situations of having to have huge double backs to get to areas you missed, but you can have quest areas with not that great of drops meant for getting through the game have all these dead ends and let the end game farming areas be mostly single-directional and still have rng.
if you think that last part is an issue, why? think of all the best in slot farming areas (outside of TZs). what are they? superuniques near waypoints (no rng). chaos (very little rng). trav (no rng). throne room (no rng). countess (few dead ends, and not very long ones at that). etc, etc. of course, bosses are the exception to this. why? because teleport makes it easy to navigate to them. but you dont need to nerf teleport to make boss farming balance, just make monster farming more effective or boss farming less effective by buffing normal monster drops or nerfing boss drops. OR introduce equally competitive areas designed similarly along the lines of my example above. areas that do not have a boss at the end, or are not advantageous enough to skip all the way to the end. the map is mostly in one direction, and can still have RNG so that it doesnt feel as dull to farm. teleport is then no longer needed to be competitive.
what else does teleport accomplish? pet repositioning. why do pets need to be repositioned? a solution to this is simply give them better ai. yes, this is starting to become unrealistic in terms of asking. but does every build need a pet? no. so not even build would need teleport then.
Root issue isn’t builds need it. All builds improve by teleport because they can do more stuff more quickly. Slow minded and bad players can’t get on or aren’t quick enough to use one, so they don’t like that people are just better than them at game.
The root would be that people like to be fast/better, and that maps and unknown map layouts make teleport clearly the best option for getting around because who wants to waste time walking all day when they could be slaying. And yet to fix the reason why people like teleport you’d have to kill map variety and make the path very straight forward which is never going to happen. Just like how they’re never going to change teleport because it allows the better players to do better things.
well somehow i hit edit on my previous post instead of replying and i forgot my response to massassi but my out-of-order response to dizzy should still cover it
tl;dr the rate at which you can generate items by using teleport should be similar to the rate at which you can generate items by not using teleport, whatever means that may be, and the accessible areas to do so should be relatively equal. then, teleport would no longer be necessary. can a barb still go teleport his way to andy? sure. but he also has the option to clear a cow-like level that is easy to access and not need teleport to be at the same item rate as teleporting to andy. itll never be truly 100% equal. but make it close enough that nobody significantly lags behind by not taking teleport, in the same sense that builds that arent top of the line S+ are still playable and fun.
Would argue that merc teleporting isn’t the only reason a zon does it in cows. It is moreso for cow herding. Not necessary but is part of min/maxing run speed. Which teleport allows you to do.
As for maps or whatever yes if the game was easily traversed with very linear maps then teleport might not be necessary at all, but when it can improve your run time by minutes it is clearly the best option.
As for buffing normal mobs drops vs straight shooting for X Y or Z it is what it is. Even still getting to the next champ pack faster would still clearly always be better.
Meanwhile those whose brains cannot keep up with teleport trying to compete with running around Durance lvl 3 or catacombs on the way to andy, or finding the portal for trist to get the cow leg take far longer to start their runs. And killing more and faster dominates, so why not let the better players keep dominating? Do we need to nerf them just because some aren’t smart enough to use teleport?
You’re talking about changing many factors to make up for people’s stupidity. And while I agree normal mobs should have much better chances to drop well, and all mobs in all acts should grant XP on par with each other, that simply isn’t how the game is made.
So, you’re right if they changed the drop rates for normal mobs, changed their XP rate, changed the maps to be short and linier and more dense with no dead-ends. Yes in that case teleport probably isn’t necessary. So all we need is these awful devs to completely redesign the game, pray they don’t mess it up, all so some smooth brained clowns can get enigma/teleport removed. Seems like an awful lot of work for something that isn’t going to happen anyway.
Btw teleport is used to bypass terrain that cannot be traversed, repositioning of summons/pets/merc, rounding out of enemies, seal pop tricking chaos, tricking baal waves, removing yourself from danger, improving you speed to next target, which in turn increases the amount of mobs killed which in turn increases the amount of items found and XP gained.
But yes, by all means, lets nerf everyone to keep everyone stuck in 2001 with the rest of these apes. Sure we can all walk super slowly together, lets get rid of skill gap and min/maxing and item progression. So we can all find the same 3 useless items per hour with them.
You want to get rid of the skill that can make someone better and more efficient at what they’re playing to cater to noobs. While we’re at it let’s remove spray control, bunny hopping, pre lined up smokes/flashes/mollys/grenades in CSGO. This way the braindead silvers might have a chance of getting 1 kill against the best, that way they don’t need to improve at all to being on the same playing field.
idk ive seen people that are pretty good at herding without having to teleport. the only reason they do teleport is to bring the merc to them. but thats besides the point.
well yes, thats true. my idea is a rather large change to the endgame system as it currently is. but isnt that what people want? TZs started to go in that direction. and people seem to be mostly okay with TZs. could the current devs pull it off? well… i cant say i’d be the most optimistic about it… but they do do some things right at least.
yeah no… dont put words in my mouth please. my above idea isnt the only solution i think could fix “teleport”. and i dont think teleport is necessarily overpowered by default. i think locking 80% of builds behind 1 item in the endgame is poor itemization. im sure we as diablo fans love good itemization right? but anyone can tell diablo 2 isnt perfect, and the majority of the builds needing one specific item to be competitive and bis is poor item design. but how do you make any other body armor in the game good without slapping teleport on it? if every body armor in the game has teleport, why not just give everyone in the game teleport? i also want to keep skill expression and differences in builds in the game. but im of the opinion that teleport makes the game easier… being able to permanently distance yourself from enemies instantaneously is a very strong ability. of course, this can be counterplayed with introducing glassy builds that have an advantage. but does anyone use teleport right now to express skill in pvm? no. they only use it for mobility. once they get to their destination, it has no purpose, even if the destination is within the same screen.
why does the ability to teleport make someone better and more efficient at the game? and why does my proposal render that any different? my idea only aims to make teleport optional.
well.
let me put it like this; i started up about 4 weeks ago, and i have an enigma on the only character (necro) i bothered to level before i heard the news that next ladder season is on may 4th.
a month, starting from scratch, was all it took for me to get an enigma.
now to your other points:
Why is Enigma too powerful?
because it has teleport + a lot of other good stats. its too much. at least remove the MF and +skills to make it more niche (again i suggest deleting it entirely, but anything to nerf it would be welcome imo).
Why is Teleport too powerful?
because it allows you to skip through the game without killing mobs. you literally face no obstacles in your way with this spell in your book.
Wich classes do you play?
like i said, for this season i only had 4 weeks, so i’ve only played necro this season, but i’ve played them all in the past. mostly pala, barb, druid, necro.
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My point wasn’t that you can’t herd without it, but that using teleport to do so is more efficient. Just like you can run to andy without teleport, doesn’t mean that teleport isn’t the better option.
That is far too much for these devs to even attempt. I actually believe fully that TZ are bad for the game, and that some of the changes I mentioned would have been better. But since TZ are what we have and one of the best ways to not only farm but gain XP, everyone loves to play them, no matter how bad they are for other things. The whole game should just be plain playable, you should be able to get all items in hell from any mob, you should get XP from all kills. Sure maybe some mobs are weighted a bit more, but there is no reason TZ ever needed to exist. The root of their necessity could have been handled in a much better way.
Sorry wasn’t putting words in your mouth though that is how I phrased it. It was a general response to the ideas in question. No build is locked down by teleport. Even a sorc can function without it. End game speed is locked behind one skill for sure. Just like end game breaking immunity is now locked behind 1 item. Just like how most builds have very few options for itemization beyond a few variances. You say that being able to teleport away is an advantage that is somehow crazy OP. As if you cannot outrun things? Charge? Leap? Vigor? BoneWall? Meatshields so you can run? The defensive portion of enigma is not the reason teleport is good, speed is, so I’m not sure why we got onto that.
Teleport is always functional for the points that I mentioned above.
Teleport btw is indeed optional. Nobody has to use it if they cannot handle it and are bad at the game. There is nobody stopping that amazon who was using enigma, from trading it in for a skullders and walking to get the leg and then using 3FRW scs to run through cows.
man you really gonna compare rejuv potions to teleport?.. come on…
What exactly is an OP item/skill?
Enigma/Teleport, because it allows you to skip through the game at record speed and just nuke high yield item drops while facing no dangers on the way.
they might as well just allow you to make a portal straight to all the bosses from the base and skip the nonsense, because its basically the same thing.
And why would it be bad when some item is the strongest in the game? (Although maybe CTA is even more desired across the board).
because the game is supposed to be about build variety.
Enigma makes every other body armor obsolete once you have it, which constitutes a problem when it comes to said build variety.
can you name me 1 body armor you would use instead of enigma as any class other than sorc?
no you can’t, because Enigma is simply the best option.
nothing else even holds a candle to it.
Congrats it took you a month to do what others can do in 5 days during early ladder.
It wouldn’t be niche even with the MF loss and +skill loss. Regardless even if they did that you’d still complain about it I’m sure. They should just give every class teleport then at that rate, then we can kill off enigma, and yall can keep slowly walking. But then everyone would be teleporting and yall know you would. So the issue isn’t teleport itself it is that you’re mad you can’t access it as quickly as others because you’re bad at the game.
Pre-Enigma on non-teleport character. People still skip mobs. There is almost no mob density that stops you from skipping mobs ever. You can choose to fight them if you want to, but don’t pretend like pre-enigma people waste time on every fallen in the pit.
Ahh yes i forgot that teleport prevented incoming damage. Nobody has every been caught out well teleporting. No dangers at all.
Nobody goes straight to bosses unless they’re bad. Should kill all champ packs along the way.
There is still build variety. You are indeed free to not use enigma or teleport. But you could also just use a teleport ammy/staff. You opt for enigma because it has good +stats, but nothing in game limits you to only using enigma even for teleport.