Community Feedback for Improving Itemization

General Discussion
1307

Hello everybody!

Within this post I try to keep up with your recent discussions.

Top 1) Nerfing RW (Part 1/2).

Generally I tend to agree to most of Camperdabase arguments on those RW. Charles proposals to Insight, Infinity and CtA seems to me to not change anything. Nerfs because of nerfing. If we modify existing and partially expensive RWs that needs to have a purpose. For me, that would be to make alternatives more appealing. But that would still not the case here.

Insight for example is cheap but as Camperdabase mentioned mainly a NM weapon which starts to falls back in hell. It is very specialized for chars with mana problems. If you hava mana problems and you don´t want to constantly guzzle mana pots you will use Insight. With lvl 17, 12 or even only lvl 6 Meditation aura. You won´t swap that for anything else (for an Honor for example). For casters that might happen if they implement our proposal to Que-Heghans but for the rest, that would not matter. It would be just less QoL and therewith annoying.

So I still think that change is pointless as well. If we would nerf Insight I would rather lower ED from 200-260 to something like 180-220%. Therewith your choosen tradeoff would be more distinct. The merc will be lees effective in killing and dies more often. However limiting it to lvl 6-9 would be ok and I would not raise a strict veto. But it´s simply doesn´t fullfill the overall purpose of this thread imho.

Infinity:

Same here. I you would not like to loose CtA and swap for a lower resist wand, you will go the Infinity way. It´s expensive and appropriate for the given cost. If you lower the lvl auf the aura, you might just break this expensive runeword without doing any good to uniques.

Lowering the lower resist effect from -85% on lvl 12 to -40 on lvl 3 just make it not break a lot of immunities. Here as well I could support nerfing ED from 255-325 to something likt 180-240%. Remove MF and PMH if you will. But nerfing the aura doesn´t improve the game.

So I would kindly place my veto here! Let´s work on other items to offer interesting alternatives with a different twist for those who want some variety…

Call to Arms

I´m completly with Camperdabase on this one as well! CtA provides a very unique mechanic for the player (especially if you play SSF!). The price is obtainable but not cheap.

Lowering the roll of BO doesn´t change anything. My first D2R CtA rolled +1 BO and of course I used it. A lower BO just make it more annoying since not the change in life is really important but the duration is. A lvl 6 BO is 85 seconds (+50% life/mana) and a lvl 4 is 65 seconds with (+44% l/m), lvl 1 ist 35 seconds (+35% l/m). So you just increas the need to refresh it in an average cow run from 2-3 to maybe 4-5?

Putting TP as an o-skill on Wizardspike it what makes you change your swap in my humble opinion. And that´s in my opionon the way we should go - offer interesting alternatives.

So I would as well - kindly - express my disagreement here.

Top 2) Nerfing RW (Part 2/2).

Then we have the group of OP RW that theoreticially have plenty of alternatives but are just soo strong, that they again leaves all other options simply to far behind. We adressed a lot buffs to uniques to counter this (Grief <> The Grendfathers/Cranium Basher etc.), but it might be not enough but we don´t want to buff the shi**t out of every uniques since that makes the game to easy in a lot of cases.

Nerfing Enigma, Mosaic and Spirit are just needed since they are so far of, that ther is practicially no alternative. The same accounts for Grief but for a lesser extend.

Enigma:

Enigma is probably the hardest case. And yes any change made would displease a lot of player.

I tend to like the idea of removing LAEF and lower Str. and MD. It would be still very good to use but, maybe at least casters would go for other options now and you would consider using more bases.

As said before I personally would also limit +2 skill to only +1 skill. That would be the tradeoff for TP here. CoH, all the mediocre (even when buffed) +2 class-skill RW armors would gain tremendously in appealance.
Most of the our buffed uniques would now shine in a completely different light. All would be an easy fix and could be applied to existing items as well (the need to respect for all chars would be not a big issue imho).

But if most of you think that it should keep +2 skill I guess the proposed changes would at least opens enough room to think about something different at least. So you would have my blessing on this one!

I also think that the late would be more important on our priority list!

Since im not really playing Sins and haven´t tried Mosaic I will not suggest anything on this one (but the topic is super complex imho).

Top 3) Buffing RW.

Chains of Honor

CoH is a little bit dependend on what will be done to Enigma imho. But I like yoour discussion.

I think adding +1 Holy shield is an interesting approach as discussed in August already. We only added this to the Heaven’s Brethren 2p set bonus. So that would be fine for me having it on an expensive RW.

But I really think that not adding at least some FRW hurts a lot in terms of mobility. Could you see removing DtoD instead of +25 FRW (as discussed)?
If we put it in a defensive direction that would only be thematic then?

I do like both takes, but tend to favour Charles approach. But the lowest lvl RW with IAS is lvl 35 Black with only +15% IAS. So I would only apply to this lvl 27 RW 10% IAS and would go to 20% OW instead?

Top 4) RW-Bases

What do you all think about Oath in hammers? No feedback on this one so far?

Top 5) Socket Options.

Any feedback on this one?

Top 6) Sunders.

Did you already add this to the OP? Where? Could find it. :slight_smile:

Top 7) Goldstrike Arche

Any comments on this?

Top 8) Set.

Didn´t forget about you my friend. But could not make it and it´s already late for me now. Next on the list! As well as 2-3 proposals for low OS RW/Base.

A good weekend to everybody!

2 Likes
1308

Thank you for the kind words about my arguments.

If you allow me a small correction here, PMH and MF come from Mal and Ist, the runes would have to be changed for these properties to leave infinity.

Of these, I have already offered a solution for Grief which is to let Obedience be used on all weapons, you have a less powerful but lower cost alternative, and as it was accepted as a suggestion by Charles I consider this resolved, if Cramus’ suggestion is accepted

The discussion about RW Enigma is about teleportation. MF, Force that becomes life, and other useful properties can wait in the discussion.

Other sources of teleportation are staffs, Circlets and Amulets, all of which come from charge abilities.

Staffs take up weapon and shield slots and are not useful for melee characters, but they are still cheap teleportation for a level 24 req.

Circlets and Amulets (which are the same thing in different slots) may be able to have teleport charges, but they are not sold as easily at the npc.

So the realistic options are:

  1. Give other teleportation options:
  • Topic already includes this with the proposal in Set Naj to have access to teleportation +1
  1. Change the mechanics of teleportation charges based on magical items. What led to my insistent, but necessary, correction of the prefix and sulfix tables.

For me, the enigma can be left alone if the staff accepts the Naj set’s proposal, and I think we can’t lose sight of the fact that this has already been discussed in this topic.

As for spirit, there are two separate discussions, that of the sword and the shield.

Sword is strong, it is an excellent value for money for its level 25, but there is something better, which is HOTO, even though we are comparing something Amn against a Vex.

My minimum proposal is for his level req to be set to 40, even though reducing the FHR, the all skill being reduced to +1 would be acceptable and plausible and it would still be more powerful than most caster weapons for the level.

The problem with the spirit shield is several factors and linked to other things in the game.

  1. Paladin shields can take 4 sockets as long as they can be dropped in areas with this ilevel, from wordstone onwards if my memory serves me correctly.

  2. Necromancer shields cannot have the third socket, let alone the fourth socket to compare with the paladin, which is a glaring imbalance and unfortunately due to the existence of the spirit shield, the extra skills do not compensate for the resistance and other access to RW of the paladin.

  3. There are no unique shields comparable to spirit, LW and SS are circumstantially more useful than spirit, but it dominates for actions and has the best cost benefit, since they are runes from act 1 of nm in the countess.

  4. Homunculus divides the BIS from necro sum and bone. For Necro poison, it shares the second best position, second only to the 3-part bonus from Trangs’ shield (it returns later).

  5. In the case of the paladin, only the HOZ can face the spirit and possibly not even that depending on the break point, as the paladin is not subject to the limitation of being a shield from hell. I have already given a proposal to solve the specific problem, which is to nerf the number of sockets for paladin shields of normal and exceptional quality to 3 and it is one of the proposals in the topic.

I’m the first to think that an obvious fix is to leave the necromacer with his Break points when playing vampire with the Trangs set, and not that an elite set is better to use 4 parts of it than 5, which is a bad joke .

Mosaic I really think is so broken that only a PRT with several versions of its power has to be made to calibrate the power of the RW and even so, one thing that hurts the game is even if the mosaic stops breaking the game as it is doing so, it should not be MA Sin’s only option.

Once again I apologize for the wall of text, but I think it is important to remember what we have already discussed and put forward as suggestions and I believe that several of them help to correct the distortions of the engima and spirit.

2 Likes
1309

Thank you for your replie. Will comment on this this evening and maybe edit my post for the sake of oversight (+10h, CET).

But what do you think about my others points? Just to cover everything before we move on tho the next topics?

2 Likes
1310

I consider it just a quality of life, it has my support.

This one I consider a serious problem. The first step that can be taken is to make the quest reward repeatable for gold. This would save the creation of the char that will be rushed to do a socket quest and then deleted.

I also think there should be one recipe for each specific amount of socket, a little more expensive than the standard recipe and not preventing superior items from entering the roll.

But I’m sure this opinion of mine is completely controversial.

My opinion on sunders goes into the infinity controversy

I consider it another quality of life, it has my support, despite the fact that it could be more aggressive in the buff.

2 Likes
1311

To me, the issue with Paladin Shields and Spirit isn’t that they all roll with 4 Sockets(with them being found as early as A5 Normal), it’s that the other 6 classes can’t utilize Kite(Dragon), Tower(Pavise) and Gothic(Ancient) Shields for 4 Socket Shields. Those are the Normal/Exceptional tier equivalents of Monarch, Aegis and Ward Elite bases respectively. If they could roll with 4 Sockets, not only would the other 6 classes be able to wield Spirit earlier, but do so without having to plop 156 Strength just to equip it(Strength is bonkers on Shields…). I mean Vortex is 148 Strength and that’s the “heaviest” Paladin Shield in the game while the earliest 4 Socket Shield for non-Paladins is the Monarch at 156… how exactly is that fair when Paladins can utilize Normal tier Targe’s that require a meager 16 Strength for Spirit(not to mention auto-mods that yield 40-45 All Resistance).

You talk about HoZ not being able to compete… Spirits made in a 40-45 All Resistance base is the reason HoZ can’t compete because Spirit puts CLP Resistance at 75-80 in that scenario(which from the Shield slot is insane… and beats an Um’d HoZ). The only reason you’d go with HoZ is for the Blocking attributes and +2 PComb skills(and if you don’t care about the 125 FCR breakpoint, which in nearly all cases is worth pushing for).

Mosaic’s issue is that it allows charges to basically stay indefinitely once acquired. If you’re in a densely populated area, you can basically keep your charge up-time going until you’ve cleared an area. Charges were meant to be acquired and discharged, not kept in perpetuity. Remove the Charge-up attribute on Mosaic(or remove the runeword outright) and increase the uptime on charges by a factor of two or three with charge-up attacks refreshing the counter for all existing charges(so if you use multiple charge-ups, you can keep previous ones up). Then Finishing Moves/Normal attack discharges a charge each time they are used(although I’m used to the old mechanism of discharging it all at once). Given that Mosaic has been allowed to persist for two Seasons, I wonder if it’s even possible to put the Genie back in the bottle as they say.

For Trang’s, its unknown as to whether the Vampire FCR bug can be fixed. Irregardless, the set can really use FCR, if only to buff Poison Nova and the Fire Skills that come with the Set as a Vampire.

Oh and when it comes to Socketing, a Horadric Cube recipe exists for Normal Tier items(and even Magic Weapons(albeit 1-2 Sockets)) but nothing for Rare or Unique Items. Simply adding a Cube recipe to add a Socket to Unique items would go a long way to addressing the issue of creating characters simply for Larzuk quest(s).

Edit: Also any changes for Normal Uniques also apply to Classic characters. Keep that in mind when doing Normal Tier suggestions(including the old classic Sets).

3 Likes
1312

Corpse explosion has previously scaled with the number of players in the room, can the genie go back into the bottle? Yes, it is possible. Necromancer players didn’t die and MA Sin players didn’t die either.

There are two possible solutions.

Option number 1: set the vampire’s break points
The most obvious is to set the necromancer’s BP on the vampire and the problem is solved. Unfortunately, I don’t know how to do this without studying because I don’t know which table the mobs’ break points are in.

Option number 2: remove the vampire transformation

Go to the Sets table, Line 24, column BA and change the monsterset value (which transforms into a vampire) to fullsetgeneric and it will have the same shine as the IK or another elite Set and the vampire transformation, which is a mere cosmetic, is removed from the set trangs is ready to be a hell option for necromancer summoner and poison, it’s not the best but quite viable.

Sorry, but the argument that it is not possible to correct I do not accept.

2 Likes
1313

Thing is, one benefit of being a Vampire is that you walk as fast as you run. That means going for Max Block as a Trang-Oul Necromancer is actually worthwhile because you have the insane mobility of running combined with the defense and blocking of walking. Is that enough to offset having a much slower FCR breakpoint compared to a normal Necromancer? One would argue that it’s sacrificing offensive potential for unique defensive potential.

That being said, would it really hurt to give the set additional FCR to remotely come close to other Elite Caster sets such as Tal Rasha? I mean I go and give 30 FCR to Aldur Set, which is 10 more than Trang-Oul has right now and I haven’t gotten too much blowback from that given that Aldur Druids can grab Magefists and Spider to hit the 12-Frame/68 FCR breakpoint(with 11-Frame/99 breakpoint certainly obtainable). Necromancers only have the Weapon slot and are incentivized to use Death Web given the Poison benefits of the Set, leaving just Jewelry to obtain additional FCR(of which the maximum possible is 60 for 17-Frame/48 breakpoint). Even 10 FCR would go a long way as then you’d be able to hit the 16-Frame/65 breakpoint but I go and give it a total of +40 or 60 overall such that the 15-Frame/86 breakpoint is obtainable. 15-Frames is nothing compared to 10 or heck 9 in Human form but how often do you really need to cast Poison Nova? It’s the Fire Skills that would benefit the most from a FCR boost.

2 Likes
1314

True! So we could remove +35 FRW and maybe limit Vitality from +0,5 per lvl to +0,25?

And we changes dmg on Grief to 280-340 already. Combined with buffs of several melee weapongs, that would be enough.

Wizardspike, Tyrael, Naj (as well as sets) would be good imho.

Lvl 40 would solve al lot of problems. But the runes determine the lvl req. so we could not do a lot without changing a lot (a lot of work, so we won´t see that I suppose).

Thats why we should limit normal and NM bases to 3 OS to counteract this. But I would be fine if pallys would keep this advantage as well. For the shield the rest needs an an end game Monach to use it.

With nerfing spirit to +1 skills, that would solve most of the problems and make other options far more viable. So would leave the discussion here.

We proposed to add 3 OS to elite Necro shields. Which would make Splendor a good choice and alternative with nerfed Spirit over here.

All true, but if spirit is nerfed to +1 all skills, that would make quite a difference (alog with reduced FHR and Mana)? So were good on this topic?

That would be one option. Have to think about sets in more detail the next days.
But tbh I kind a like the unique thouch of the vampire form. A third option would to change the BP a little close to the original necro BP? But thats maybe a discussion for another thread. Lets focus on the set with the given vamp parameters okay? And as DarkHelmet correctly stated the vampire form has its uses with regard to running/blocking. We should keept that for the flavour? So adding FCR might be the direction to elaboreate further. But as said. Let me think about it in more detail.

Cant help with this one. MRLLama quoted an exstensive thread on this one. We´ll see…

Big QoL. But what would be the receipt? I´d rather run a 15 mins Char to Lazurk then cubing expensive runes for one socket on uniques. So could live with it as it is… A receipt shold be at least Ko-Pul, or even Ist like?

So we take this one to the OP? @Charles, whats you opinion on this?

Completly new mechanic. So I guess we should not go this way.

So would you support adding one 5 OS 1H sword option? Conquest Sword would be my take, since its slower and makes a difference to a PB?

I guess that would be ok for a NM bow. Just found one. Rolled high on DtD but low on DtU. Limiting it to 150-200 would greatly benefit for mid-game. It won´t be a really good end game choice and thats ok with me.

One more think since I just found one:

Would you support reducing the lvl req of the new proposal from 80 to 75? As we did with most end game items?

Thats is for now. Have a good day folks!

1 Like
1315

Even if Spirit was nerfed to +1 Skills and had Mana/FHR reduced, I’d still roll Spirit due to the higher Resistance(I can make up Fire via Aldur or Fire Resist Boots) and FCR to hit the 125 breakpoint. A few skill points aren’t as important as being able to cast Blessed Hammer, FoH, Holy Bolt or heck Teleport just a tad faster. Even if Spirit was a measely 25 FCR, all I’d need is a 2/20 Amulet to hit the 125 breakpoint with Hoto, Magefists and Spider yielding the rest. Damage difference would be maybe 1k Hammer damage(~300 base and a small difference in Concentration aura’s multiplier). As I noted before, where HoZ has the edge is on the Blocking mods, which allow for lower Dexterity requirements and hence more into Vitality and Life as a result. If Spirit’s FCR was nerfed to 20 FCR to match Lidless, THEN I’d contemplate using HoZ since I’d have to sacrifice SOJ to hit the 125 FCR breakpoint via 10 FCR rings.

As for the Unique/Set socket recipe, I’m not entirely sure what I’d require to add a socket. The cost to do Normal/White items is relatively low(Tal to Amn) so I was thinking Io to Lem range(maybe Pul), given we use that to upgrade Uniques from Normal to Exceptional or Exceptional to Elite. Although I think it would be prudent to change existing recipes to upgrading runes since its kind of annoying having to hunt for a chipped Amethyst to upgrade Amn runes when any type of chipped gem should do as I see it.

1 Like
1316

Alot of catching up to do… been pretty busy.

That’s fair and will go ahead and remove nerfs to Insight, Infinity and CtA in the OP.

My fear is removing a whooping +200% DtD for +25% FRW would be a huge nerf, plus DtD feels thematic along with bonus to HS.

Agreed, I’ll make that change to Honor in OP.

I haven’t added Sunder Charms to OP as ideas need to be refined and put on back burner.

Agreed. Fixed.

Agreed, added to OP.

1 Like
1317

Well, but thats still an end game setup? That would be fine for me!

We all agree that Spirit is an severe accident and to make it well balanced we would need to change several things simultaneously in the game (what is very unlikely tbh). We can not increase lvl req. since that is determined by the highes rune (in this case a lvl 25 Amn). So we would need to change the receipt to include at least something like a Fal or Lem (and for the current power level a lvl 55 Vex would even more appropriate).

So my approach would be accepting some of the broken aspects (like having elite pally shields 4 OS/45@res and only remove the 4th OS for the normal and NM variants). Leaving spirit an endgame shield option (for still very cheap). But after our buffs with several very good alternatives tbh.

The nerf to +1 skills along with the decrease FHR and mana would help tremendously serveral of the then buffed uniques in the Op.

So, I cant add more then this. I guess with the nerfes on Spirit itself, limiting pally shields to 3 OS (except elites) and increasing necro heads to 3 OS (on elites with now splendor beeing able in a 3/3/3 voodoo head) that would do a lot of help. One aspect we would have to accept as well is the caused market distorting with HR prices for “old” 35 FCR spirit shields.

@CharlesJT: The nerf to normal an pally shields to 3 OS max didn´t make it to the Maximum Sockets section? So could you please add the 10 normal an NM pally shields here? Or do we have to discuss this further? And maybe we sort the list to Weapons and Armors for an better overview for everybody if you have more time within the next weeks :slight_smile:

:+1:

Understandable. Then lets discusse first, for what kind of char this armour should be targeting? I played it only once on a fire druid. So dmg almost didn´matter. But would have welcomed a bit of FRW. For caster or Wizzy-users FRW would only matter in town. I tend to believe the niche for CoH are casters with no need to reach the next FCR BP but want the @res and the +2 skills.
But I might be completely wrong on this one?

:+1:

Maybe with an “under constrution” batch? We might forget those otherwise :slight_smile:

:+1:

Top 5) Socket Options.

I would like to see a single 1-H option with 5 Sockets for a Grief (if you like OP - but spent insane amouts of gold like on a Zerker axe, so no problem tbh). But more to an eth Death and maybe an eth Eternity (super expensive but not good for the given cost imho).
Cryptic Sword average dmg (non eth) of 41 (eth 61) beeing the faster option (-10)

or
Conquest Sword average dmg 45 (more consistant) beeing slower (+0)

You lost me on this reply! Why is it a serious problem?

Adding the opportunity to “undo” a Lazurk-Socket and do it again doesn´t solve the problem of not having any 1H 5 OS sword option. Grief would not be a problem since you change the IAS and massiv gold investment for not using an PB (as you do already with a zerker axe). But I have more an option for eDeath in my mind… as a niche case also eth Eternity?

The developers should consider adding a few recipes that allows the player to add sockets to non-socketed items, such as: unique, rare, and magic items as follows:

The Lazurk-undo-think would be new mechanic so I´m sure we won´t see that. And I don´t know if I really like it as well?! I like it to have a chance of not getting, what you desire (RNG at its best :slight_smile: ). I would rather add a new and more expensive receipt for superior weapons and armos tbh.

As well >>> check OP :slight_smile:

New Socketing Recipes

Unique Ring + Lem Rune + Perfect Skull + Unique Item = Unique Item (1 socket)
Rare Ring + Hel Rune + Flawless Skull + Rare Item = Rare Item (1-2 sockets)
Magic Ring + Eth Rune + Normal Skull + Magic Item = Magic Item (1-3 sockets)

So whats you opinion on adding 5 OS to a Conquest Sword (as the only 1H 5 OS option)?

What do you think on lowering lvl req to 75?

1 Like
1318

So sets now (a start at least).

First of all what would be my intention for sets? I would like to see elite sets beeing viable. Not OP but closer to be usable. Like Tals but maybe even less usefull tbh. Some sets should serve niche cases like Hwanins for act 2 mercs. Or making sets with good single items usable as 2 or 3p sets. Along with increasing the likelyhood of those changes beeing implemented as seen in the past patches (so no complete rework if possible but adjust partial set bonuses - however some items need to be changed to make it work like on Heaven´s Brethren).

Aldurs:
We added 30 FCR an partial set bonuses so far. Your changes are far more complex (I appreciate the effort! but think we wont see this). Also your approach is more focussed to melee usage. I personally would go more for elemental buffs (summoning would not work with this really, but that would be fine for me).
So I would stick to the current proposal imho.

M’avinas
Same here. Extensive proposal and far more complex then adding partial set bonuses. Piercing would be important and we have that in the set bonus. On the helm alone I don´t see it to be used on this item alone so no problem if that is a set bonus tbh. Change HFD to CBF on the Gloves ignores that we also propose to stack HFD (2 items HFD = 1/4 freeze duration etc.). And HDF ring or amulett would be needed giving it a different and very unique twist - what I like allways :slight_smile: ).
Overall I can´t tell if the lot of your changes are not to much tbh.
So here as well I would stick to the current proposal.

Natalyas
We didn´t add a proposal here (at least I couldn´t find it). So lets work on this one! I think it needs massiv AR on the 3p set (2p would make it a bit to close to the Angelics combo imho). And the weapon is just to weak. So we need something here. Currently you can beat the game with the set (I did just a few months ago, but takes ages). As you said, you gone far to wild imho? I even can not judge if we vialate item/affix rules here with first look :crazy_face: Would be a full set + one still broken Mosaic a thing here and be broken since you added a lot of + elemental dmg and enemy res to this?

Current set-up

Partial Set Bonus
Magic Damage Reduced By 15 (2 Items)
+200 Defense (3 Items)

Complete Set Bonus
+3 To Assassin Skills Levels
+350 Defense
14% Life Stolen Per Hit
14% Mana Stolen Per Hit
All Resistances +50
Damage Reduced by 30%
Magic Damage Reduced By 15
Fade

You would change ITD on the weapon (does work only on the set weapon if I´m right). So how about leaving this and add -50% TD to the 2 set bonus (works on every weapon and bosses)?
I´m not sure what my opinion is on the various elementall buffs. But I find it hard to translate this into set bonus buffs (as we did with all set so far, so I would try to stick to this approach as much as possible).
I would leave the various rolls (keep up excitement). So not fixing OS on the armour to 3 (I find every few days this armour and not pick it up anymore because I have already several good ones… keep RNG alive :slight_smile: ). I would support increasing defence from +350 to +500 on the full set!
I would not fix the rolls on the res of the boots. Would make rare boots even more irrelevant and would create some OP boots imho. I could see increasing full set bonus @res from +50 to +75 though! And we need some dmg along with the buffed bases dmg we already put into phase 1. How about adding either some flat dmg or some magic dmg (full set)?

So my proposal as a starting point for the discussion would be:

  • Add -50% Target Defense (2p set bonus)
  • Add +500 Attack Rating (3p set bonus)
  • Change +350 Defense to +500 Defense (full set)
  • Change All Resistances +50 to +75 (full set)
  • Add +100 Damage or +400 Magic Damag (full set)

AR and Dmg modifiers would apply to both weapons and be solid in combination (upped Bartucs or any of the other buffed elite claws or rare ones)? Those change would be easy to judge, easy to implment, easy to ptr test without many variables like base weapon rolls etc and in line with all our current approaches focussing on set bonuses like the devs did before.

What do you think?

Immortal King:

I don´t see IK used by other chars so no need to change the helmet itself. If someone uses it partially, that would be very niche and I would be happy to see that in a youtube vid about it :slight_smile:
4 OS on the armor is a no no (!) for me. Jewelers of the Whale would lose its purpose. We limited added sockets allways to max of +3 (Arcain e.g.) not to create new crazy OP individual items. Change HFD to CBF I would not support (same reason as above). Do we really need to increase DR further then -75 full set along with the -20% on the belt?

Tal Rashas:
Already good enough to be viable (i still run it on my lvl 97 main sorc). So that´s why we did not add this on in the OP and I still support not touching it! Poison res for a possible energy shield sorc would be nice. But that would only make an OP meta char more meta. So I would not like to see that really. No need to change anything imho!

Griswold:
I kind a like your approach as well (I plan to play my next pally with the set)! But still far more complex to implement an for sure more work then adding 4 lines of codes to the set bonus file…
Adding max fire resist on the armor acts like a Guardian Angel type. Do we need something similar for the same char type? I think not.
So bottom line I still support more the current proposal.

Since I´ve no more time today I would like to keep the rest (especially Trangs) for next week. I really appreaciate your approach and think that most changes a well thought! But overall to complex and thus more unlikely that we will see those.

But for now we maybe discussed the obove before we move on to the next sets?

1 Like
1319

IK Gloves combined with Belt and Boots yield the following:

Belt: +25 Strength, 28 Fire Res, 31 Light Res, 25% FHR + Defense mods
Gloves: 25 IAS, +20 Strength + Dex + Defense mods
Boots: 40 FRW, 25 MF, Attack Rating + 44 Life

Not factoring in 125 to Attack Rating from partial set bonus. What holds people back from using IK in a partial set fashion is two factors: 1) The high stat cost in equipping them(110 on Gloves/Belt, 125 on Boots, even more if they’re upgraded) and 2) Other options are typically better depending on the class/build. Despite that, there aren’t too many Gloves out there that yield 25 IAS and a nice fat Stat boost to go with it.

Furthermore, the reason I put Damage reduction on the Helmet specifically is so that ONLY Barbarians benefit. What was proposed in this thread was to apply it as a global partial set bonus to where anyone using the set would benefit. Adding 4 Sockets to the Chest Armor was a bit much I’ll admit but was in response to 2.43 since in that patch, WW or more specifically 2-H WW, got nerfed hard. The 4 sockets on the Armor, as well as adding sockets to the IK Maul was in direct response to 2.43 to give players options on how to hit the new breakpoints(as well as my change for Burst of Speed replacing Enchant proc). As for CBF, this is NEEDED now given that WW is affected by chilled/freezing affects(didn’t care before because you would attack at the same speed, no longer). Finally, the DR buff on the Belt was made prior to 2.43 and my PDR change to IK Helm. That said, going from 20% to 25% isn’t that big of a change. Overall, the goal was to have IK Barbarians be Physical Tanks.

Tal Rasha changes were to bring it up to par with the other Class Sets with respect to All Resistance. Does it need Poison Resistance? If push came to shove, no but I felt like adding it nonetheless. The FCR change(+10 on Helm) I have a better argument for because you typically roll Fire/Cold as Tal Rasha. The extra FCR would help Lightning builds considerably while Fire/Cold aren’t as reliant on a perfect Spirit to hit 105 breakpoint.

For Griswold, the Chest Armor does roll into Guardian Angel territory but it’s not as strong as Guardian Angel. GA has much higher resistance cap(including Poison which Griswold Armor does not have) and has Blocking mods that when combined with HoZ permit an insanely low amount of Dexterity for Max Block. It also has +1 Paladin Skills while Griswold simply has +2 Defensive auras. On an item-to-item comparison, most people would take GA every day since if you were to plop Vex, Ohm and Lo into Griswold armor to bring it to +10(which I wouldn’t do but I’m simply pointing it out), you’re still weaker than GA while occupying four gear slots(Helm, Chest, Weapon and Shield) compared to GA’s one(Chest).

Also I have a somewhat radical idea for Tyreal’s Might(changes in bold):

Defense: 1322-1502 (varies)(Base Defense: 487-600)
Required Level: 84
Required Strength: None
+200% Enhanced Defense
Cannot Be Cursed
+40% Faster Run/Walk
+20 To All Stats
+1 Teleport
All Resistances +30
Cannot Be Frozen
Requirements -100%
Slain Monsters Rest in Peace
Indestructible
Gem Sockets(4)

I realize that the current suggestion has Teleport and the want/need for an Enigma alternative. Considering its rarity, I fully agree here. I increased FRW to 40%, matching what has been proposed. Current suggestion on Enhanced Defense varies from 150-200. I’m opting to make it a flat 200% since I’ve never been a fan of RNG, much less on an item as rare as this one is. I set All Resistance to +30 from +20-30(again same reasoning). I gave it +20 to all Stats, meaning in addition to Strength, you get Dexterity, Vitality and Energy boost, hence its like having Breath of the Dying in the Chest slot. I gave it 4 Sockets(double what has been proposed) so as to really give players flexibility on what to add to it(be it Enhanced Damage, Attack Speed, Physical Resistance/Reduction or bolstering All Resistance even higher).

Finally, I added an attribute that does not exist on any item in the game and I’m honestly surprised it was never proposed or added at some point given that Can Not Be Frozen exists: Can Not Be Cursed. Possessed Champions currently possess this attribute so coding this shouldn’t be that hard/difficult. Yet this last attribute would imply that you’ll be immune to all curses in the game: Amplify Damage, Decrepify, Weaken, Lower Resist, etc. The ramifications of this attribute alone would make it the BiS armor bar none but when it comes to dueling, you can simply outlaw it because it’s easy to spot(can’t hide that Blue Armor).

1 Like
1320

Like i get the point of this post but
Oh Boy … They realy need a better balance team among other things
Mosiac been proven time and time again to just be stupid OP its pretty much play Assassin coz of Mosiac or play Sorc coz built in teleport eveything eles is basicly for challanege runs or other random bs, outside of Paladin that is coz hey Hammerden still among other things

Boy this game needs a massive over-haul period.

1 Like
1321

Solid change, I’ll keep for the next update.

Interesting for Natalyas, need more time to think about this set.

Definitely agree here.

Interesting take. I like Cannot Be Cursed and would really make this armor shine.

I like the idea for increasing max sockets for Conquest Sword to 5.

1 Like
1322

In my opinon your proposals on some items are far to radical. If we think about what would be the goal of this operation my view is to make most early- and mid-game items usable agains the RW for the respective stage of your playthrough. I like to see some provide new twists for existing or new builds. I would be okay if most are slightly weaker than the usual RWs. The super rare and iconic uniques could be slightly (!) better then the usual meta BIS items.

But in my humble opinion we don´t need to raise the overall powerlevel since the game is in most cases to easy expecially for the meta builds.

That beeing said, we need to consider that we propose to nerf several of the OP runewords and we want to change several base effects (like buffing base weapon dmg, changeing some max socket options, crafting etc).

In the end that allways needs to considered when makeing proposals. At the end that all need to play thogether nicely. And devs need to have a change to implement this with little effort, since Blizz is not spending a lot of ressources on a game not generating considerable new money.

So your proposal on Tyrales sounds tempting but would be crazy powerfull and we would have a new BIS for every class imho. So I like the idea of can not be cursed a lot, but the combination of +2 skill, TP, CBF, no strength req., high @res and on top 4 OS would break the balance by a huge amount. Our nerfed enigma would be pointless, along with all other buffed uniques options! So please make sure you have the full picture in mind!

That beeing said, highly encourage you to come along with us further :slight_smile:

As said, I think we won´t see that they buff all the items and thats why we only change 1-2 items directly. That would need a lot of work on top of just editing the set bonus lines of code. On top we would not have the problem that exisiting items fall behind, when the set bonuses are changed instead of the items.

So what do you think about my proposals for the set bonuses above? I believe that I could include al lot of your reasing into this?

I´m kind a busy this week, so my feedback on the remaining sets would take till the WE.

1323

As a general charge to improve charged items, instead of us proposing to decrease the cost of recharging items, how about this instead?..

Charged Items now automatically slowly recharge by adding 1 charge every 20 seconds.

This could be easy for devs to implement to improve Unique Items that offer charged abilities that slowly regenerate over time, now Blood Raven’s Charge could build a Revive Bowazon, Bonehew gives viable CE, Spellsteal a cheap alternative to Enigma, Demon Limb for Enchant, etc.

2 Likes
1324

charles I apologize but I’m finishing my move. I will elaborate on the answer more calmly

1 Like
1325

Friendly reminder for all engima and sorc slaves, that literally no other game ever has teleports so readily available.

Teleports is just lazy easy mode and should not be in the game, not the way it is currently at least.

An emergency escape button once a minute? Sure.
A spammable easymode spell? Nope.

1326

So so so so so so so much this. This is the reason why I uninstalled. Don’t wanna play a game where most classes and builds are just meme tier and not really playable.

1 Like