If I’m not mistaken, when you use multi arrows, the chance to say cast amp is only applied to the middle two arrows, not the others? If that’s the case, rework it so the chance to cast XX spell works on ALL the multi arrows
Also, a bowazons attacks can be blocked with a max block setup, adding magic damage to GA would help counter that a bit. Kind of like concentration can add magic to the physical damage of the attack based on how many points are placed into Zerk.
Lol no. Way too op.
Just make guided arrow not blockable, living up to its “always hits” property. There already is magic arrow.
I think those ideas are pretty solid, especially the projectile speed and movement speed.
I really hope the devs saw and implemented some of these for the next round of PTR.
Must say it’s awesome they cleaned up some of the gameplay mechanics that previously made some aspects of the game unplayable (referring to D/A/E skills). Don’t listen to the people that tell you zons were being buffed, though. It’s not a buff, but what happened was that 2.4 adjusted d/a/e to function the way they were originally intended to function. The extra eHP only balances out the lack of DPS on the bowazon subclass (the new synergies don’t add that much. If adding up offhand enhanced damage multipliers from faith/pride/ed jewels/fort/might etc it’s not that huge of a boost), so there is nothing OP about it. Every class has defensive skills of their own: holy shield, eshield, claw block/fade, bone armor, oak sage/minions/cyclone armor, shout/bo. Zons had to have something good defense-wise, because zons were given the worst mobility in the game. It had to have been something really good, balancing out something that WAS that bad.
Javazons don’t actually need d/a/e skills. They are just there to get everything killed as quickly as possible, and they don’t really need to defend themselves from anything. Jav skills take heavy investment, so you will have nothing left for any defensive skills when you have maxed the damage synergies. So it is really only bowazons that can actually use the defensive skills, and much needed as well. Javazons got dps nerfs, not boosts, whereas most other classes (especially sorc!) got dps boosts at pvm, because LF doesn’t synergise damage and it’s just the other skills synergising damage from each other. DPS is about the only thing that counts in pvm (more tactical options from defensive passives, though), so it’s ultimately more of a nerf than a boost. Elemental javas are also not really used in pvp so not much of a boost to a java there.
Just pointing these out because people don’t know what needs to be boosted and what doesn’t, lol. Re: pvp, you can’t listen to most of the opinions that you hear on this forum. A lot of it are just recommendations based on how it fares against very suboptimal builds which is nothing to go by because you don’t want to gimp a char against people that do use optimal builds. Most of the people that are saying zons are OP, are deliberately assessing the matchups with chars that aren’t using maxed block or DR, and also routinely ignore the fact that other classes can easily use Decrepify, Bone Prison or Doom. With a combination of MB+DR+Doom, which almost any char can use, it would set a zon’s damage output at about 5-10% of whatever is listed, but then some people will just tell you to go out of your way to go without it, and then they will try to tell you that Zons are OP (we don’t know why. But we keep seeing that. Like need shrink on the forums or something). In the new patch blocklock and KB also won’t be very effective, and both are heavily relied on by zons, so zons actually did not gain much in relation to any other class. Apparently smite now goes through evade and stuff, so it’s just worse off in certain MUs. Should maybe also comment on pierce+guided arrow in pvp. Pierce+guided arrow wouldn’t have been imba if it had remained in v1.1. The v1.10 patch added those things: Enigma, Grief/Breath of the Dying, synergies that deal even more damage than 6 hit guided arrows or w/e it is, Doom, CTA, etc. None of the people discussing pierce+guided arrow take into account those things, but if you did then you would just see that zons wouldn’t be OP even with pierce+guided arrow. Guided arrows also don’t pierce when blocked, so if you had 75% mb it’s not going to be anywhere near 6 attacks per 1 arrow like they say. Zons have quite some ways to go before being anywhere near being considered OP. They would have to boost zons A LOT to call them OP. Just keep asking for boosts, cause we need them!
We have. Guided arrow + Pierce would still be OP even today. I agree that guided arrow was nerfed too much in the other direction with the removal of the pierce bug, hence the suggestions in this thread.
The potential to hit your target up to 6 times, and therefore 6 times the damage and the high potential of getting the target in block lock, is huge.
Uhm, potential to pierce 6x doesn’t equate to 6x dmg. If you’re using maxed block like anyone should, the potential for another hitcheck is 25%, potential for 3rd hitcheck is 6.25%, etc, so the dmg output is actually only 130%+, not 600%.
Of course hypothetically speaking only, because bringing back a wack thing like pierce ga is really extremely unwise and I don’t think they would do it… Like just mentioned it for the purpose of pointing out that bowas weren’t actually given a proper look at in the patch 20 yrs ago… So you have an overly nerfed one today. If you’re talking about pvp between pvm no block builds or deliberate no block builds then yeah ok those 2 are definitely completely OP.
This was not a bug.
There’s an entire column for the Amazon ranged skills where 1 = benefits from pierce, and ‘blank’ = it does not benefit from pierce. Guided arrow had a 1, then it had blank. All other amazon bow and ranged jav skills have a 1. Giving it pierce back is as simple as just adding a 1 on that cell (GA row, yes to Pierce column).
It was a deliberate nerf. Whether it was a good or bad nerf is debatable, but Guided Arrow piercing was never ever a bug.
Exactly, it’s a big buff for PvM, but not nearly as substantial in PvP. I think it’s a good idea to bring the pierce back; but the newlly added synergies might be enough of a damage boost.
Projectile Speed is all I want now, especially for the elemental arrows.
I’d say that most people have a general idea of the builds that are good and the ones that are bad. The details on how to achieve balance is what’s blurry.
Totally agree with the changes, and needs some movement speed to passives like you said. Bowazon just so damn slow movement wise. The small 1% or less of people who play PVP can just go cry. This is a PVM game and the devs arent balancing crap around your random e-peen PVP games.
You could be right there. More likely it was an unintended change introduced at some point that was later then reverted.
Since this thread offers no real feedback and just wants to make the Amazon Rambo in D2 why don’t we just make barbs have 500% damage bonus to all attacks, sorcs get no teleport, necros are immune to physical damage, paladins lose block chance when putting points in smite 0% if maxed, and druids lose the ability to transform into werewolf/werebear sounds good right?
What an absurd amount of changes requested to an already buffed to maximum bowzon.
Let’s be for real here…
wth are you talking about?
Where in this thread does it say make Amazon do
?
Projectile speed does not increase dmg; it just makes the gameplay smoother.
Just how Barbarian’s Leap having a faster animation doesn’t increase its dmg, it just makes Leap play more smoothly.
Yes, exactly… take your own advice.
I like that you quoted me but I still have no idea why this thread was made to buff the Amazon more.
personally not interested in any except 3. fire knockback, the ele bowa could a buff … As for the GA/MS buffs we already saw, there are at least 10 builds that needed a buff more.
This thread was made way before Physical Bowazon was buffed, and as you can see, no one asked for Physical Bowazon dmg increase.
And Elemental Boawzon is still bad either way.
CONTEXT, learn context.
And you can make a separate thread for those. No one is stopping you.
They gave us the ability to make insight in a bow in the coming patch. This is the subtle fix for bow progression and a good one imo
Actually, a lot of people are asking for nerfs based on how their no block, no dr chars fare against bowazons in pvp, which is actually quite even, and it’s not even a difficult matchup. This is on a lot of other threads, not just this thread. I actually skimmed through this thread, so I didn’t really look at who said what
You see people complaining in pvp because they build for pure vita chars. That means they won’t spend a single point in str or dex, in order to eke out every last bit of hp possible. It doesn’t make all that much sense, because it’s probably a max 50dex investment to have a functional maxed block stash setup on most chars, which is really about a 5% reduction in total hp, for a ~800% gain in ehp (or if you’re looking at pierce+guided arrow, maxed block with dr would be about a 3000% increase in ehp over a setup without mb/dr) against any char with a physical attack of any sort, which is basically all these chars: zon, barb, pally (hdins and v/ts use secondary charge), asn (dtalon/dclaw), or summon/fissure pvp druids. The change in hp total usually does not change the number of hammers/spears etc they can tank, but it is more of an OCD thing. So when you see people complaining about zons being OP in pvp (at this point you need to bring in a psychologist/psychiatrist lol, not more balance discussions), it’s usually not things you want to balance the game around, because there are a lot of people that actually use MB/DR against zons, as well as a lot of other debuffs that those people are deliberately refusing to factor in. Zons have a lot more room to be boosted before they can ACTUALLY be called OP at pvp. So the real question is whether it would be OP for pvm or not. I don’t really know about this one cause pierce/ga would one-shot most regular monsters, but then Hell Baal takes forever on a bowazon, so I would agree zons need a single target boost
Totally agree w/ increased projectile speed. With the new screen resolution the missile speed is too slow in pvp, because people would be able to see it from a mile away and teleport over it. They should also increase guided arrow’s seeking range, since ppl have so much more avenue for sidestepping it now. In pvm multi takes like forever to reach stuff from across the screen, because of new screen resolution. They totally should increase the missle speed