[2.5 FEEDBACK] Buff melee at the internal game systems level. Increase Terror Zone density/add boss mobs

Thanks for your constant efforts to improve the game, Blizzard. Unlike some of the community, I think the addition of sundered charms was beneficial to the game overall. With the inclusion of Terror Zones, some classes and builds would simply not be able to touch the latest Terror Zone without the charms, meaning they would not be able to take part in this important endgame system. Ensuring Terror Zones are available to everyone is a good goal.

Melee/physical combat needs a buff at the internal game systems level
However, the latest patch does not go far enough in achieving that goal. Specifically, the historic problem of Diablo 2 melee/physical builds being less powerful than casters has actually been exacerbated by Terror Zones and sundered charms. In terms of the historic problem, melee/physical builds can miss entirely (casters can’t miss); melee/physical builds have to take damage to deal damage (casters can simply nuke out of range); ladder adds a direct melee nerf – increased monster armor – that casters don’t have to deal with; melee/physical builds have an extreme lack of AoE options (versus casters who have a ton); most importantly, melee/physical builds are almost entirely dependent on gear to deal adequate endgame damage, whereas casters simply just need to dump points into a skill and are fine with mediocre gear.

With the introduction of Terror Zones, mobs have now become even more difficult to hit, difficult to kill, and deal more damage than before. Casters have now been given an additional tool to deal with this – sundered charms. The charms allow casters to have wider areas of farming available, and also allow skills like Conviction, Lower Resistance, and Cold Mastery to work at 100% effectiveness instead of 20% effectiveness like before. I actually think this all is great. This caster buff is not the issue.

The issue is that melee/physical builds got no such buff. In fact, Terror Zones were a massive nerf to melee/physical builds. Everything does more damage than before (affects melee more than casters), everything got much harder to kill (not an issue for casters since sundered charms allow -resistance debuffs to count more than before), and most importantly, everything got much harder to actually hit. Melee/physical builds have no new tools to counter these things. We’re still left with the same game systems and tools as before, and the physical damage sundered charm doesn’t actually address any of the historic issues nor the new issues brought by Terror Zones. Clear speeds for casters are nearly unchanged (or even improved), but melee/physical builds are now even farther behind than before.

This is clearly an issue with the fundamental, base systems of the game, and something needs to be done to address it before October 6th. There are actually some extremely simple things that can be done before then. Things like:

  1. Dramatically buff the effect of attack rating. Casters can nearly remove enemy resistances. Melee/physical classes need to be able to counter the ability to miss.

  2. Adjust the scaling of melee/physical skills so they do a lot more damage at lower levels but still cap out at roughly the same damage as now, thereby making them less item dependent as they attempt to level and gain gear.

  3. Add some form of AoE to melee attacks, perhaps varying in effect or size per weapon type.

  4. Get rid of the armor and block penalties when moving – penalties that affect melee/physical builds far more than casters.

  5. Eliminate the armor buff to monsters in ladder.

  6. Make two-handed weapons do more damage by changing how much strength adds to their % damage.

Those are just a few simple systems changes I came up with in 5 minutes. You guys are the pros; I bet you can do even better!

Increase Terror Zone density and add boss mobs
Terror Zones don’t feel terrifying. They feel pretty bland and uninspiring. Part of the supposed reason for this is as an attempt to keep melee competitive since they lack AoE compared to casters. However, if you fix melee/physical builds as per above, there’s no reason to keep Terror Zones in their bland state as they are now. Instead, you can make them as scary as they should be.

Double monster density. Maybe even triple it. I’m not kidding. It would make TZs actually terrifying, especially in hardcore, and would make them a lot more engaging and entertaining than they are now. In fact, right now, they almost feel like a chore. “Oh, I have to go do this really boring place because I’ll fall behind if I don’t.” Density would help fix this.

Also add boss mobs. Develop a list of 5-10 boss mobs that can spawn in a Terror Zone, and have one spawn randomly per zone. This is important because TZs currently feel flat as you finish clearing them. There is no feeling of closure or fulfillment. Finding some dclone-level boss mob each time would completely change that. There would be a goal to accomplish, and a feeling of satisfaction with each clear.

Ok, that’s it. Do it. You know you want to. :slight_smile:

9 Likes

Sadly 99% of d2r players play casters . Melee doesnt matter at all . The worse part comes when Many of said Ppl believe that melee is fines… to some OP!! , No youtuber plays a melee and blizz clearly listens to the masses.

2 Likes

Yeahhhh…it really stinks. Why play melee when casters are so much more efficient in clear speed and item gathering?

Hopefully Blizz realizes the issue. :frowning:

Melee is crap tier now, requiring AR + updated weapons 24/7 + little to no AoE, while casters blow up the entire game with little to no gear.

Whos in charge at blizzard, crazy how much melee ignored.

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Like your addition of adding a mini boss to the Tz, that would be a nice add. Also decrease the Tz time to every 30 minutes… 1 hour is way too long imo… I ran through 2 act2 Tz with my Frezy / Thrower that concluded in the claw viper temple and sat there for 40 minutes waiting for another one and then logged off before that happened…

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I think the “problem” with melee with the new charms, if there even is a problem (which I’d debate, but not now), is that physical immunes were already largely a non-issue. Instead of physical getting the “sunder” effect, or maybe in addition to getting the sunder effect, the charm should also have added some amount of some combination of ED%, min/max damage, Attack Rating, to be worth using and actually buff physical characters in a non-trivial way. Of course, then we run into the whole “but pvp!” thing, but last I checked physical damage was pretty terrible there too, and last I checked, everyone would have access to it anyway so it wouldn’t really affect balance outside of maybe leveling the playfield a little bit. Or maybe the ED% etc bonuses on the charm would simply be disabled in PvP. Either way. Missed opportunity to actually do something. I’m not surprised

2 Likes

oh no, i feel forced to play caster now because they’ve only nerfed melee and buffed casters the last 12 years. it’s quite painful to watch.

you don’t have to wait, you just make a new game, yes they actually developed a system that forces more server strain. they are actually that stupid at the d2:r team.

maybe the terror zones should be act based then? would that be to op? the terror time would need a major increase
it would be nice for players like myself who dont mind wiping out an entire act

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i think just switching it to any other random TZ-able zone would be fine. that way you can keep moving in game. forever, until every TZ is clear. it would take a long time and reduce immense amounts of server stress.

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how would that work while in game?
seems the game would need to see if you have killed every creature in the current zone before another zone got terrorized?
sorta like - you have cleansed the zone blah blah blah
so and so is now terrorized

my idea would be to have a champ pack kill counter i nthe top corner, it would say 0/5 or 0/6 (however many there are) and as soon as those are dead, the TZ moves.

3 Likes

ah yea great idea :slight_smile:

Edit: On topic - Give us melee splash damage.

or they could put a slightly tougher “boss” pack, and as soon as that is killed, it moves. either way, i have a few ideas that could be fun, but instead we just get to create new games every 1-5 minutes depending on area… (my BO lasts longer than that)

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Agreed with all the feedback on TZ rollover. There definitely needs to be a system where the TZs refresh in game, whether it’s based on elite packs killed, % of zone cleared, or killing a TZ boss. Something to keep us from having to constantly remake the games before, as the poster above said, our BO wears out.

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Guess I would need to know how it was to be implemented, but, to simply say melee gets AoE is, in my opinion, eliminating melee.
If I want AoE, I’ll play caster, multi-shot ranged… A zoo Druid… or my dual-dream-zealot…
But my favorite is my fanata-zealot. there is something very satisfying about 1 on 1 with monsters, breaking-up/herding packs to isolate specific targets…
I do not want melee become quasi caster that carries and axe/sword rather than a wand/staff…
I fear that melee getting AoE is a slippery slope of eliminating melee.

Having said that, the remainder of your post, in my opinion, is spot on.
Thank you.

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Yeahhhh, I get it. What you’re saying makes sense.

The only other way I can see making melee more competitive is to make some of the elites and bosses (if added to TZs) much harder than they are now. The one advantage melee has over casters is crushing blow, so if a small wall is put up to casters by harder elites/bosses, that gives melee a competitive edge that hopefully in the end would balance out casters’ competitive edge in dealing with trash mobs with AoE.

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I really hope they don’t do flat increases in damage or add basic splash damage. There is so much more opportunity here. Although i would accept them anyway if the alternative was never getting fixed.

They can add AoE components to many existing physical skills for all classes. The problem is adding graphical effects to existing skills, which is time consuming and problematic for classic graphics mode. They need to use existing effects.

Whirlwind could proc tornadoes. ( Are they random, in the direction you aim, swirl in a circle?

Dragon Tail Could cause Defeated Enemies to explode for an additional explosive damage similar to corpse explode but maybe only inherits 25% of dragon tail.

Dragon Claw could send the claw slash animation in a quick straight line that inherits 50% of it’s damage.

Pal Conversion could be a cooldown ability used on corpses that turn them into a holy stationary turret creature, maybe a wisp. That shoots a holybolt when you use a melee skill.

Fury, every 5th successful hit sends 1-3 spirit wolves, sprinting in a straight line that deals physical / magic damage.

Maul, every 6 hits causes your neck shockwave to deal 1000% more damage and 50% larger radius.

It doesn’t have to be that complicated but it should be more interesting than just “splash damage”.

2 Likes

I actually agree with you 100%. I think skill enhancements are a way better idea than a flat AoE effect for melee or whatever other base level thing that may be implemented. That said, I only suggested adding splash or something similar for expediency’s sake. It seems like the D2R team doesn’t have much time or resources anymore, so I thought it would have a higher chance of getting implemented if it were a simple change.

When I imagine this stuff I want to puke. Thats the stuff that i dont like on many games and i like that D2 does not have it. Visually disguisting.