but the tank synergies and working with my other tank is a lot of why i even enjoy tanking at all. combine that with the additional pressure on you as a single person to fill out the whole role and the inevitable flak you would get for ever daring to play anything that isn’t rein or orisa would make it 10x as miserable as it is now
and it wouldn’t improve things for dps. bc there are more spaces for dps players will assume the wait won’t be as bad and so those who don’t play dps specifically because of the wait will also be trying to play dps. plus since tanking is so important that’s a lot of power resting on the luck of what singular player they drop on your team for tank.
just sounds kinda miserable any way you slice it tbh
NO!
Sit your queue time DPS main
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Not understanding something and disagreeing with something are two different things, after a season of Orisa/Sigma it should be very clear to Blizzard that blurring the line between main tanks and off tanks has just lead to barrier proliferation and slower metagames which took the game away from its FPS roots and introduced power crept rubbish like Sigma. Bruisers with limited peel mechanics are much healthier for the game, a meta with D.va/Zarya over Sigma/Orisa is far more fun.
Except that they just nerfed barriers… your point again? They just moved the game in the “brawl” direction…
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They nerfed barriers and nothing changed, Orisa/Sigma are still the meta while no longer being viable main tanks by themselves. My point is this “hybridzation” of main and off tank is a horrible idea and has lead to an awful meta of pressing W to barrel stuff each other. If the immdeiate result of the new design philosophy sucks, then the whole design philosophy sucks PERIOD. In 2/2/2, there is zero risk of releasing new bruisers leading us to a stale metagame of a shoot the blue square simulator.
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I wasn’t going to correct them. At worst we’d see no increase in time, (would probably require like 60%+ of Tanks to just stop playing Tank and start playing DPS), and at best we’d probably see 5 to 10 minutes cut off the average queue slot. You’ll still be waiting about 10 minutes for most games as DPS, just less 20 minute queues.
Agreed. There’d have to be some huge survivability buffs for Tanks to make 1/3/2 work (I’m not even touching the idea of 1/4/1); and not just number increases for Healths / Shields. Zarya and Hog would essentially need a full rework to work as a solo Tank and pretty much every other Tank would need an increase to survivability or mobility abilities ; if not also boosting their damage further so that they continue to be a threat against these hypothetical boosted tanks.
The more I have speculated about 1/3/2 - the more I think it would be good for the game, but impossible for the Devs to balance properly.
We’d either get a horrible Tank character that’s unbearable to play - or we’d have Kaiju running around the map wrecking everyone in their path.
It’s pretty easy to tell that the original idea behind Overwatch’s team compositions weren’t going to include or balance around the idea of two or more tanks. Even now, most Tanks can produce a lethal amount of damage to individual targets and seem balanced around the idea of withstanding damage from multiple sources (up to a certain point).
The recent changes towards barriers further exemplifies this issue of how much effort is necessary to eliminate a single tank and the rise and dominance of the GOATS meta drives home the idea that Blizzard never really considered the possibility of multiple tanks being a stable or viable team composition.
While I don’t think the idea is too outlandish, I don’t think it’s viable either, not without reverting some changes delivered to barriers among other minor changes.
Even, I’m not sure I would agree with the idea.
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The tank meta is the exact same, literally nothing changed.
If I have to solo tank to play tank… I’m not tanking. I’ll tank along side someone, but I’m not going to sign up to solo tank. And I’m willing to bet, I’m not the only one with this mindset.
9 Likes
2/3/2 has my vote, I’d love to see it in action on current maps to see how it feels, specifically if it’s too crowded. Anything less than 2 tanks or supports will not work in a competitive environment, outside of niche comps like 4dps ball. It’s just too easy to swarm the solo X with your extra dps and pop them with no cotank defensives, or cohealer heals.
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Another interesting idea would be to try creating a new role called hybrid. Or even support, and call support healers.
Characters in this role would have both defensive CDs and healing CDs, but not quite the health pool of a tank or the healing throughput of a healer.
Zarya, new passive that allows her to shoot allies with her gun to give them a modest amount of shield health. Would consume weapon charge, so would compete with her dps.
Brig, shield back up to 600 and very slightly enlarged (say 15%), reduce passive healing. Maybe even eliminate it.
Hog take a breather could be an aoe. Give passive that reduces the amount of ult he provides enemy by 30%.
Mei can encase any friendlies within melee range of her iceblock, and they get the healing too.
You get the idea, these are just rough ideas. Some could be more of a tank, some more of a healer.
Then you could maybe do 1/1/3/1, since the hybrid has CDs to assist in either role.
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Tanks are bottleneck into starting a match.
Check the ratio.
Right now you need 2 tanks to start a game and only 2 dps get to play, the rest keeps waiting.
2:2 = 1:1 ratio
if you halve the tanks needed and increase dps by 50% thats 2x1.5 = 3
aka 1:3 ratio of 321 comps
LMAO GOD NO.
You don’t understand how terrible solo tanking is and how many tanks literally would be useless.
You know all the people screeching about having 2 off tanks? Imagine a single off tank now. The only good tank that can do it solo is Hammond.
3 Likes
That’s ratio of players needed, not actual amount of players queuing the role.
In all honesty, the actual ratio of the playerbase is probably something like 15/60/25. I can’t say with any certainty though, because Blizzard doesn’t release those data points. At that hypothetical ratio, you could move half of tanks to DPS and the queues would still be nominally better for Damage Role (with 1/3/2) - about 5 minutes less per person.
This is assuming anyone would want to tank. You are overlooking what would happen if you made tanks solo tank.
There would be a significant amount of them leaving. 2-2-2 brought me back to OW. I was tired of solo tanking. It’s not fun, most tanks aren’t built to solo tank, and it becomes a chore.
I would 100% leave this game if this was implemented. Adding more dps slots and reducing tanks per game would work if the game and the tank heros were designed to solo tank. Which they aren’t.
Back in the day if you wanted to solo tank the only real viable choices were Orisa and WB. Orisa due to her suppressing fire and impressive barrier (which no longer is the case so she would be even less of a choice) and WB.
I’m a WB main and I don’t want to go back to that. I wont.
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It’s also no fun to play a tank at all in those kind of situations. So, from the perspective of “pure fun”, it’s a failure of an idea.
What the tank roster needs is more tanks with more offense who create space by being especially dangerous close up but who lack the more passive, boring-by-the-perspective-of-dps-players defensive options. Who are sitting ducks when isolated, and extremely dangerous when in the middle of their group.
What we need is to convert DPS-mains into tank-mains. Or at least more frequent vacationers. And that is the last thing 1/3/2 would ever do.
Pretty much impossible thing to do. Too different mindsets.
At best, you will get tank, that doesn’t care at all about teammates, constantly runs somewhere alone, and then complains about no healing.
3 Likes
I had balance changes in mind later…
But the main problem i see is that you still end up solo or zero tanking.
ALL the 2x shield tank combos are meta…
BUT you get dps tanks like hog in 90% of games, and 2x offtanks in 50%, so the experience for me is worse than 4dps 0tank + i have to wait to even play those thrower matches
Says whom? Who is telling “dis da metaz”… what tier are you playing at?
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